Below is the latest Amazon 5-star review of GNGS which asks the question: Why didn't Marilyn Wayne call out to the female voice they heard crying for help from drowning? I am sorry if I neglected to include the fact in the book that, yes, Marilyn Wayne and John Payne DID call out to the voice. There was no response.
To confirm this, I questioned Marilyn again and she responded, YES, she recalls yelling out to the voice.
5.0 out of 5 stars Marilyn Wayne? (alias?) why didn't she, August 7, 2011
By John L. Duda "J. Dudzinski" (Michigan, USA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME) This review is from: Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendour (Hardcover)
call out to Natalie? Never once in the book does it say that anyone called out to Natalie for help...even if her husband ("Wayne's") discouraged her from going in to help a distressed person in the water. She nor her husband called out to this "person"? I find that extremely odd.
I do, however believe Wagner had something to do with his wife's drowning. From the book...I believe it was a raging fight fueled by Wagner's jealousy and unbelievable rage and total drunkenness. After reading the book, I think he threw her around in a rage, put the jacket on her, tossed her overboard, untied the dingy and said, "here's your help". Natalie had been drinking, and was beaten. She knew nothing of water and did not want anything to do with it. R. J. knew it was the best way to get at her and make her "see sense" in her flirtatiousness that he hated. He was drunk and enraged beyond belief. He wanted to see her suffer for awhile her worst fear. I don't think he wanted to kill her but he wanted to taunt her and hurt her to the utmost. Period.
I was 22 at the time the news came on the television set. I thought, WOW, Natalie, dead. And that's it. She hated water. I knew that from that film she did where, as a child, she almost drowned...and then to die of this? It seemed odd to me that it was ruled a "accidental drowning" and that was it. Nothing much was said after the announcement, and I always wanted more. I loved Natalie. What a beautiful actress. She made me feel all the human feelings that I loved, feared and were angry about in life. I loved her in "This Property is Condemned" with Robert Redford. What a gorgeous beauty. Subtle, sublime and vulnerable yet courageous...loved her. I have that film and cherish it. She's a woman/child in that film...I miss her.
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I recall reading that Wayne confirmed that she did verbally respond when she heard Natalie scream "help me, somebody help me".
ReplyDeleteHi Marti,
ReplyDeletejust wondering in my brain-along with hundreds of self-quizzings about the whole thing:
why the woman screaming for help did not responded to the back-calling at her by Miss Wayne?
if she had still enough energy out from her lungs, could hear and be heard and was still there with her faculties, why didn't she give any response, just a sound to her potential saviours?
Are Miss Wayne, her son and Mr Payne totally sure there was no response?
thanks
Marti, Has Marilyn Wayne ever been interviewed on video discussing what she heard the night Natalie drowned?
ReplyDeleteIt would be great to see and hear Ms Wayne talking about that night, and to have a record of it.
From what I have heard, she was and is very protective of her privacy. This is why it would be very unlikely that she would come out with all of this if it was not true.
ReplyDeleteAt the time of Natalie's death, she did not give a televised interview. She spoke to a reporter from the L.A Times. She did not make the rounds. Her privacy issues might have had something to do with that.
Thanks for that info, Roz.
ReplyDeleteMarilyn was never looking for publicity or her "15 minutes" as Rasure and others sometimes accused. She is not the only one who was aboard the Capricorn that night who heard the cries for help. She at first never wanted to interview not only because she values her privacy, but she also sensed that John Payne, an affluent businessman, far wealthier than Wagner, did not want to become a media target, so she quietly called the medical examiner's office and the LACSD to inform them they had the estimated time Natalie "left" the yacht wrong. Marilyn heard the cries for help at a specific time and wanted to let them know. FOr her effort, she was insulted and called "a woman who wants her name in the papers" -- and she was ignored and NEVER interviewed by authorities.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question, Kevin, Marilyn never gave her full story until Suzanne Finstad contacted her and treated her with the respect she deserved, as Marilyn is one of the people who last heard Natalie's voice. Byt the time I interviewed Marilyn, she was angry that Suzanne's excellent time-line had still been ignored by authorities. Thus, she gave me permission to reiterate her story, but because of the media insults and threats she received for being outspoken, she chose to remain in the background. She does not need or want media attention, but her story is told and she does not and will not deny it.
Thanks, Marti. That's too bad. I think that having Ms Wayne on video would be a good thing.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see her giving an interview about what she heard but I understand her reluctance. She was labeled a liar by the lead investigator. Interestingly, Dennis was labeled a liar, also, by the lead investigator. The only person Rasure did not stamp that label on is Robert Wagner who is the only one who has been proven to be a liar.
ReplyDeleteThis is Lambert's quote from his book "Natalie Wood: A Life:"
ReplyDelete"Among the many pieces of trivial or publicity seeking 'evidence' in the gossip columns and police reports, one gained some attention at the time. John Payne (not the actor) and his fiancee, Marilyn Wayne, whose boat was moored approximately eighty feet from Splendour, claimed to have heard a drowning woman's cries for help that night, followed by "drunken male voices" calling from another nearby boat, 'Don't worry we're coming to get you.' But neither RJ nor Walken recalled hearing any voices from another boat, and RJ said later that he was 'not convinced the couple heard anything. Although we'd been drinking, we'd certainly have heard a cry for help, if it came from nearby, because water's a great conduit for sound.'
On December 3, Wayne's story appeared in the Los Angeles Times, but the Sheriff's Dept was unconvinced, and ignored it."
Lambert calls it "trivial" and publicity-seeking."
How could Walken have heard cries from a drowning woman if he was asleep?
We know Wagner heard them because he was right there watching Natalie float away to her death.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI love the line that says RJ was unconvinced.
ReplyDeleteWhat else would you expect the man to say?
It's to laugh.
Kevinr said...
ReplyDeleteAren't they just the sort of people who go seeking publicity?
I mean, a wealthy man and his fiancee out on their boat moored on the QUIET side of the Island away from the crowds. Glad the detectives weren't taken in by this pair.
Forgot to mention Ms Wayne's son--he really must have been there for all of the publicity.
Good thing the Sheriff's Dept didn't take them seriously.
Yes, Kevin! Those detectives were so astute not to be taken in by people who had absolutely nothing to gain by lying but to be taken in by a man who had everything to lose by telling the truth.
ReplyDelete"RJ said later that he was 'not convinced the couple heard anything."
ReplyDeleteIt's a joke, Roz. Wagner NEVER spoke to Ms Wayne or John Payne. He never made an attempt to speak to the couple, and he says he was unconvinced.
I know it was a joke as was my response. I was agreeing with you.
ReplyDeleteIt's odd that they all wanted to discredit Wayne and to silence her.
I know you knew...I was just reiterating. I forgot the word "such," as in, it's such a joke.
ReplyDeleteMarilyn and John were so surprised that Wagner did not even say hello to them when they saw Wagner and his mother out to dinner about two weeks after Natalie died. They thought Wagner would want to know what they had heard, what they might know about Natalie's last moments. After all, wouldn't any caring spouse be interested in talking with a person or persons who may have heard the last words of a spouse who lost life?
ReplyDeleteWagner never had any questions for anyone because he knew what had happened to Natalie. Seeking answers would've drawn attention to the situation, and that situation was that Wagner was most likely the "man's voice" that said (miserably) "We're coming to get you." Wagner was on the back deck with Natalie when she went "missing."
But, after those words, and watching Natalie being carried away by the ocean current, the dinghy was released, and Dennis didn't release it, and Walken, who was sleeping, didn't release it. Then Wagner sent Dennis on a wild goose chase throught the yacht and met up with him in the wheelhouse. Instead of allowing Dennis to make a call or to turn on the seachlight, Wagner opened a bottle of Scotch and encouraged Dennis to drink and "wait with him."
Some people, those incapable of understanding Dennis's utter confusion, say that Dennis should have overpowered Wagner at this point, but Dennis was led to believe Natalie would return. Though he kept insisted they do something, Wagner was adamant they "wait it out." Dennis, at that point, still never believed Wagner would allow harm to come to Natalie.
Even when the harbormaster got involved, and the Island people (including Doug Bombard) an ADDITIONAL two hours passed before ANYONE contacted the Coast Guard. So, why didn't any of those men overpower Wagner sooner to call the Coast Guard? It wasn't JUST Dennis who Wagner had fooled or persuaded.
Interestingly, in Lambert's book, Wagner says (as you pointed out, Kevin) that 'he and Walken' didn't hear any cries for help.' Right in that sentence is another one of Wagner's lies.... he's leading the reader to believe that Walken was awake, when he fact, per Walken himself in several interviews, and per Dennis's polygraph, Walken was SLEEPING. Also, why doesn't Wagner mention in Lambert's book what DENNIS might've heard or not heard? Dennis is a PERSON, too, and was also on that boat, AWAKE. But, Wagner stays far, far away from ever mentioning Dennis, and conveniently "dismisses" Marilyn Wayne, her son, and John Payne. And so did the detectives in this disgusting case!
Marti, In rereading Lambert's explanation of events the night Natalie was discovered missing, it reads with nothing making sense. I don't know if Lambert was confused because Wagner made it so confusing, or Lambert is doing it on purpose.
ReplyDeleteLambert writes that Wagner was sure HE tied the dinghy port side, but explains that the most logical explanation is that Natalie slipped on the swim step trying to tie the dinghy. Wouldn't that mean the dinghy was tied stern?
Lambert never mentions that it could be tied from the back deck, and that one didn't have to step on the swim step. In one sentence he writes "ropes" but then keeps referring to one rope that tethered the dinghy.
Intersting that Lambert only mentions the port or starboard sides of the Splendour that the dinghy could be tied to. He also writes that it could be hoisted onto the deck. Why would he not mention the stern location because that is where the swim step is? All very confusing or intended to confuse???
Marti, would one use the swim step if the dinghy was tied port side?
He mentions that EVERYONE agreed that Natalie would never have gone on that swim step in the dark of night to face the ocean, but he says that because Wagner and Davern were drunk she thought it best to do it herself. He writes that sentence right after he states that Natalie's mind was clouded by too much wine and Darvon. He writes that the autopsy didn't show just how inebriated she was when she retired to her room because it was many hours later.
So, the men were too drunk, but Natalie wasn't???
Funny, Natalie had no problem with Dennis taking the four of them back to the Splendour after dinner. I guess Dennis was not too drunk to steer the dinghy in the dark of night, he was just too drunk to tighten the ropes. Ay dios mio!
He says that Wagner sent a message at 1:30AM on the Harbor Channel, which was monitored by all boats, and that shortly after (according to Noguchi's "Coroner") the Coast Gurad was called and by 2:00AM helicopters were whirling above.. WHY WOULD HE USE NOGUCHI'S BOOK TO DETERMINE THE TIME THAT THE COAST GUARD WAS CALLED? WHY DIDN'T HE CHECK THE COAST GUARD'S RECORDS TO GET THE CORRECT TIME?
MY GUESS IS THAT HE ALREADY KNEW THE ACTUAL TIME THE COAST GUARD WAS CALLED AND THAT DIDN'T LOOK GOOD FOR WAGNER.
It's interesting that Lambert never mentions what time Wagner discovered Natalie missing, and he only mentions the 1:30AM first call for help. The "Hellman Syndrome" according to Lambert. He uses that to excuse a lot.
Lambert writes, "This was Natalie's "going for danger" personality taking over again, an act of clear provocation to RJ. and a response to Walken's 'sense of mischief,'" regarding Walken and Natalie going ashore after they woke before the others. That is such BS. Walken was Natalie's guest and if she felt like going ashore (which I can't blame her for doing knowing the state of mind nutty Wagner was in), what is the big deal? How much convincing does she have to do to that nut that she wasn't having an affair. Also, Wagner forced them to moor on the other side of the Island where there wasn't any other place to go for entertainment. That was what Wagner wanted not Natalie.
It's almost as if Lambert is writing that Natalie's death was an accident, but just in case you are able to read between the lines, you can see that she was asking for it.
I don't think Lambert believed his own BS.
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteI had pages upon pages of refuting Lambert's book contents but an editor condensed it, and I dissected all of these flaws and nonsense and BS in Lambert's book you clearly see. I couldn't believe when he referenced Lana Wood and Dennis as the two troublemakers, trying to make them sound like "delusional money-grubbers" -- anyone who questions Wagner's totally lame excuses is usually called a trouble-maker or worse by Wagner and his blind followers.
The Natalie case is SO DAMN EASY to see through but its transparency has gone ignored even by the law. It's really disturbing and frustrating, but hopefully, never too late.
Also, NO, a person does not have to use the swim step to adjust a dinghy line, tied anywhere as the cleats are reachable from the yacht's deck, high up on the walls...very unlikely one could fall over, and even if so, the dinghy was tied with two lines...it couldn't have floated away. Lambert and Wagner say "ropes" because it IS more than one rope that kept the dinghy secure. If only there had been a decent, caring detective on the case.
I'm so much more aware of the picture Lambert tries to paint of a sick and confused Natalie. But, it was really a sick and unstable Wagner that was the problem.
ReplyDeleteThat is Lambert taking care of Wagner, and it is retaliation for Finstad's book. Natalie had nothing to do with Finstad's book and what she wrote about Wagner (that was all from Finstad), but Wagner had everything to do with Lambert's book and what he wrote about Natalie (it's written all over the book). Wagner is the one who wanted Lambert to paint Natalie as mentally unstabe and unfaithful "swishing her tail" at Walken. He's a stand-up guy. This is the book that Wagner requested Lambert to write.
Like you wrote in a previous post, what man would agree to take a weekend cruise with a couple if he was actually having an affair with the wife? No, that is not logical. Walken wouldn't even get involved with the fighting they were doing. I can't believe that a man who felt that way towards a married couple would stir up trouble by agreeing to come on a weekend cruise if he was having an affair with the wife. That doesn't equal Walken.
Wagner likes to give the impression that he gave Lambert permission to write that book. That is a lie! Wagner ASKED Lambert to write a biography of Natalie when Finstad was writing Natasha. Lambert was busy and refused. Later on, Lambert agreed to Wagner's request. It was very obvious that Lambert's book was written to clean Wagner's litter box after Finstad dirtied it a bit with her Natasha.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, one of Wagner's myriad lies comes up re: Marilyn Wayne hearing a voice. Wagner stated not too long ago, "Walken and I get together, and we've gone over it and over it. We've asked each other, 'Did you SEE anything? Did you HEAR anything?" He makes it sound like they've agonized together over it.
ReplyDeleteWell, as Marti mentioned here, Walken was sleeping, so of course he didn't see or hear anything. And if Wagner really WERE going "over it and over it," why would he be unconvinced by Marilyn Wayne's statements? Why wouldn't he want to go "over it and over it" with HER (as well as John Payne and her son)? He never has, so how is he unconvinced? Why wouldn't he want to go "over it and over it" with DENNIS, who was awake and RIGHT THERE?
I could not finish reading Lambert's piece of tripe. It was disrespectful to Natalie and clearly written according to Wagner's agenda. In plenty of other places, Wagner has made disparaging comments about Natalie. And don't even get me started on leaving her out of his dedication and acknowledgement sections in his book. That was DELIBERATE and TELLING, just like he sold the plots around her in Westwood so that her family couldn't be buried next to her. Now he can lie in peace in Aspen with St. John and their flippin' dogs when the time comes. He wouldn't have to be buried next to the person whose death he caused. Well, there is a force he is not going to be able to fool. He is going to find out one day.
I think I figured out what Lambert was talking about. I thought he was saying there was another swim step on the left (port) side of Splendour. All he is doing is seperating the two cleats on the stern of the Splendour. One cleat is to the left (port) and one cleat is to the right (starboard). Of course, Wagner says that he tied the dinghy with one rope to the port side. He had to say that because that gives credence to the BS story that Natalie went to the back of the boat to tie tight the rope. As Marti so astutely pointed out, even if the dinghy was tied with one rope Natalie would not have gone onto the swim step to tie it as it could be done from the back deck.
ReplyDeleteBut, we know Dennis tied both ropes of the dinghy. One to the left cleat and one to the right cleat. It wouldn't make sense if you were in for the night to let the dinghy float around on 1 rope and bang into the Splendour.
Also, once it is tied with both ropes, the engine would not bang into the Splendour as Lambert suggested.
Kevin, Wagner has also slipped by saying in interviews "ropes," not "rope." Then he corrected himself. So, he knows very well how many ropes there were.
ReplyDeleteYes, and Dennis has said that he tied the dinghy stern with both ropes.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Dennis was even questioned by Lambert when he wrote his book.
Marti, Did Lambert make any attempt to track down Dennis?
All excellent points.
ReplyDelete