This is the date Natalie Wood ended up in the ocean at approximately 11:06 PM. She did not drown immediately. She cried out for help but was deliberately left to fend for herself. Her down jacket helped her to stay afloat, thus alive, but hypothermia and fear made for a very torturous night for Natalie, an ordeal impossible to survive. The nearby boaters, Marilyn Wayne and John Payne heard Natalie's cries for help, and tried to get assistance but they didn't pursue it when all went quiet.
It all boils down to a call for help that should have been made by the person who knew how she got into the water, but he not only refused to call for professional help, he refused to allow the only person who wanted to help to touch the radio or search light switch. Instead, he poured booze for that person and encouraged him to drink.
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and she won't rest in peace until you accomplish your goal, Marti.
ReplyDeleteHe poured booze for Dennis. Doesn't that say it all?
ReplyDeleteand he drank. His wife is missing from a boat and he sits and drinks and waits 2 hours before making a half hearted radio call, then he waits close to 2 hours longer to allow the Coast Guard to be called in? IMO, that says it all. His actions scream culpability.
ReplyDeleteIt's incredible that the detectives totally ignored Marilyn Wayne.
ReplyDeleteShe woke up that Sunday morning to hear the terrible news that Natalie Wood had died from drowning. I can't imagine that Marilyn Wayne didn't have the same sad reaction that most Americans had to hearing that news.
Did the police really think that Ms Wayne's first reaction would be to think about how she could involve herslef in Natalie's story--for her own publicity?
I believe Marilyn Wayne heard Natalie crying for help, and, at such a time, I don't think that a woman like Ms Wayne would do anything but tell the truth.
Of course they were Natalie's cries--Natalie was the only person drowning!
I believe Dennis. I can't find any good reasons why he would fabricate such a story. I mean, he is putting Wagner right there with Natalie--right where Wagner said he was nowhere to be found. That would be a serious lie to get away with. You would have to be out of your mind to make that up and publish it.
ReplyDeleteThat is why I say we have absolute proof, from Dennis, that the Wagner's were involved in a really bad fight.
Wagner hasn't answered to anyhting Dennis has written, and I think that silence says a lot.
At the time the authorities questioned her statement because it was unusual for someone to hear another boater in trouble and not respond beyond an unanswered radio call and it was pointed out that no one else heard the cries for help.
ReplyDeleteNone of the authorities said that Wayne did it for publicity. That rumor was started by one of the desperate Wagner fans.
I believe that she and Payne heard the cries for help. Why on earth would they lie? She was established in a career what would not be enhanced by claiming to have heard someone screaming for help. If anything, getting involved in this could have been detrimental to her career because of the tabloid fascination with this case.
Once you understand that Wagner and Natalie were having this terrible fight on the back of the Splendour, the official version falls apart.
ReplyDeleteWagner is at the breaking point that Saturday night. He smashes the wine bottle over a coffee table in front of Natalie's guest. He goes to talk to Natalie and a fight ensues. They take the fight outside onto the back deck. Natalie dies from drowning.
Mr Wagner has a lot of explaining to do.
and so do people who "investigated" this case. THEY made it easy for Wagner to get away with all that he got away with. Rasure, Noguchi, Salerno, they all had a hand in it. Salerno did not care that Wagner lied to a homicide detective under his command. What does that say about these people who are supposed to protect the victim? They are all looking out for themselves. They piss me off more than Wagner does. They assisted in allowing Wagner to sneak through the cracks, they helped create the cracks that he sneaked through.
ReplyDeleteKevin, you're saying IT ALL IN A NUTSHELL! That's the ENTIRE point! He was with her when she went into the water while they were FIGHTING!
ReplyDeleteAs for Marilyn Wayne, Rasure has PUBLICLY stated that she was in it for her own recognition (which of course in NOT the case). Marilyn is waiting for my call and is willing to do ANYTHING to help, even to take her own polygraph. She and John Payne did everything they could that night and hoped that the man's voice they heard answer the cries for help, in fact, rescued the person crying for help.
Marti, In your book Rasure says ,and I quote, "I have it in my records that I did contact Marilyn Wayne on December third. First she said she 'may have heard...' so I thought her later claims were exaggerations."
ReplyDeleteHe says this to you after you tell him that Ms Wayne told you she was never contacted.
Natalie was buried on December 2nd. Why would he contact a possible witness a day after the victim is buried?
He's dismissing her. He is purposely dismissing Marilyn Wayne.
ReplyDeleteIf Wagner does not answer for what he did on this earth, he will when he leaves this earth. Either way, justice is waiting for this man.
ReplyDeleteMarti, Rasure made that statement years after Natalie died, not in the days following. I was referring to the days following Natalie's death. At that time no one said that Wayne was after publicity. That was never said. In fact, no one commented to the press about Wayne's claims. It was ignored. I have a video of one of them saying and this was years later that he doubted Wayne because she did nothing, physically, to help the victim. Not my words, their words.
ReplyDelete"May have heard" should have been enough for a homicide detective. It should have provoked doubt in Wagner's story, not Wayne's.
His records? I'd love to see his records. They entire scenario should be made public. Is that BS about the celebration about Natalie learning to swim in his records?
Marti, You are right about all of the lies. I hadn't seen this before.
ReplyDeleteIn the NY Daily News from Monday November 30, 1981:
"Wagner issued a statement through his attorney, Paul Ziffren, on what happenned next.
'While Mr Wagner was in the cabin, Mrs Wagner apparently went to their stateroom. When Mr Wagner went to join her, he found that she was not there and that the dinghy also was gone. Since Mrs Wagner often took the dinghy out alone, Mr Wagner was not immediately concerned,' the statement said.
'However, when she did not return in 10 or 15 minutes, Mr Wagner took his small cruiser and went to look for her. When this proved unsuccessful, (Mr Wagner) immediately contacted the Coast Guard,' the statement said."
Ziffren must have been chocking on his words.
Paul Ziffren is deceased. He was a dear friend of Natalie long before the second marriage to Wagner. He was her lawyer, her financial adviser. His wife Mickey was a dear friend of Natalie. He went by what Wagner told him. In fact, there was a statement made by Lana Wood that Ziffren was first person RJ called. I have a video of Ziffren making a statement to the press. He was obviously confused by all that was being said. He believed Wagner. He did not know that there was no "small cruiser". He was completely taken in by Wagner. Lord knows what Wagner told him.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I said he must have chocked on those words. I know Ziffren was Natalie's lawyer and friend from way back. I think it must have disturbed him to make that speech.
ReplyDeleteI recall that his eyes were looked moist when he made the statement.
ReplyDeleteAnd when I say that RJ called him. I am referring to a call made from the boat. Wagner called Ziffren before the radio call. That's what Lana claims.
Ziffren is another "bystander" Wagner manipulated. Yet,years later, Wagner still uses him by saying her promised "his friend Paul" he would never address the innuendo. He claims Paul asked this of him before he let Wagner out of his bedroom. MORE BS. The lies are astounding! Rasure's report is a bunch of empty notes. NOTHING important was pursued.
ReplyDeleteI am still astounded that no one seems to care that Robert Wagner lied. Too me, that's the BIG RED FLAG!. And before the Wagner patrol intervenes with "he lied to protect Natalie", ALL of his lies are self motivated, they benefit HIM.
ReplyDeleteI was looking at photos in the book and came across the one of Natalie and RJ on the boat holding the fish. It looks to me like the side of the boat came up to Natalie's ribcage. How could she have fallen over? It seems to me that someone would have had to pick her up and push her over. Also, why would the swim step door be open so late at night? Did Dennis actually see the door open?
ReplyDeleteWell, Ziffren isn't here any more, so he'll have to hire some new sharks to do his dirty work. They will have their work cut out for them. It's been 29 years since the public was treated to Wagner's grieving widower act. Now he stands in the cold, hard light of today's generation who are unfamiliar with Natalie. He will have no sympathy to trade on, miniscule "star power" to wield and that leaves us with just the facts. Let's see his mouthpieces work with those. Hopefully, Hollywood will be silent on his behalf as they were for Natalie. Let their cowardice finally work in Natalie's favor.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Dennis, the gate leading to the swim step was always left opened.
ReplyDeleteNo one is saying that Natalie fell over the wall. That's ridiculous. Posters were referring to her falling where the gate was opened which is where other posters are saying that Wagner tossed her in the water.
Without seeing the Splendour and the dinghy what follows is only speculation.
ReplyDeleteI can't see how Natalie could have fallen into the water from the rear door; she would have had to be standing very near the edge of the opening. However, if Natalie was pushed, her body may have bounced off of the rubber dinghy and into the water. The rubber may have lessened the impact of Natalie's body hitting the water, and that may be one reason why a loud splash was not heard. Without being pushed or thrown, I can't see how she would have gotten into the water with the swim step and dinghy there? Again, I haven't seen the area in question, so it is only a theory.
This is why I can't understand how Noguchi could have come to the conclusion of "accidental death" without seeing it for himself (or testing it for himself) even though he had police photographs and reports. I don't think those things give enough information in a case like this.
Natalie never took the dinghy out alone. Robert Wagner is a lying bastard. He always was and he always will be. All these theories are just that. Theories and RJ didn't have much trouble feeding Dennis alcohol so let us not paint Dennis as the picture of innocence either.
ReplyDeleteThat is absurd! Dennis is not guilty of doing anything to Ms Wood. Don't take the focus off of the real culprit. Because he drank that night does not make him guilty of wanting harm to come to Ms Wood.
ReplyDeleteTheories lead to answers.
Agreed, Kevin, on all points. Dennis is not the bad guy here. He did as his employer/friend told him, because the situation made no sense and he had no time to process the events. I think he was hoping Wagner was right yet stressed because it made no sense. He was the paid employee that operated a yacht, he wasn't a maritime captain endowed with powers to take command.
ReplyDeletePeople keep putting the blame on someone or something else. The only one that was involved is Robert Wagner. Natalie Wood is dead; she can't tell us what happened.
ReplyDeleteA man has to take responsibilty for his actions. Mr Wagner has not done that.
Nor will he. He will go kicking and screaming into the court of public opinion.
ReplyDeleteIt is so sad to think back to what was transpiring exactly 29 years ago tonight. And it is outrageous to realize that people involved continue to lie about it or ignore it.
ReplyDeleteEarlier this evening I caught a glimpse on t.v. of the preparations for the annual Hollywood Christmas Parade. It's always the Sunday after Thanksgiving. As I posted in a thread Marti put up a while back, I vividly recall watching Natalie and Wagner and their kids in the 1979 parade--only two years later, to the weekend, she would be gone.
Tonight it's the same type of weather that it was that night in 1979--very windy and chilly. They were all bundled up, hair flying all over, but Natalie seemed to be the one who was most enjoying it all. There was a still photo of them taken after the parade, and Natalie was just stunning in it. She was joyful and radiant. She loved life, and she loved her family.
Who calls his lawyer shortly after his wife has disappeared and hasn't been found? Sure, Ziffren was a friend of theirs but he wasn't their closest friend. Why would Wagner call him first? Only one reason--guilt.
ReplyDeleteAlso, remember that Wagner said that Ziffren pleaded with him to never talk about the incident and to not respond to "all of the rumors." What a convenient reason to never have to acknowledge all of the inconsistencies. Attribute it to the lawyer's idea and just make it look like you were being compliant and wise in taking his "advice."
And yes, Wagner is going to answer to this some day. It might not be on this earth, but like I've said before, St. Peter isn't going to give a * about Robert Wagner's image.
I wonder why Ziffren didn't think the same thing? Why is Wagner calling me? He hasn't even left the boat yet but he needs legal services? Why does he think that if it was as he says? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know something isn't kosher here. Add Ziffren to the list of Natalie's "friends".
ReplyDeleteYes--Natalie's friends largely failed her.
ReplyDeleteI am sure plenty of them thought something was wrong (like Tommy Thompson did) but didn't say anything. Instead some of them just faded out of the scene. Thompson quietly did that--he knew something had happened differently than what Wagner purported. He just didn't know what. It is sad that he passed away just a year after Natalie did. He also could've been a great ally of Marti in all of this. And it says a lot that Dominick Dunne saw truth in "GNGS."
It IS stunning that Wagner's behavior and words have just reeked of guilt for 29 years, yet "friends" and investigators never challenged him. I don't think I've ever heard more lies and ridiculous claims regarding a single event that have gone unchallenged (publicly). I guess that's because Wagner lives a "charmed life," as he claims.
It's easier not to rock the boat. Wagner's charmed life is compliments of the LACSD's original incompetence and their institutional malaise about rectifying an injustice. You can add to that all the "professionals" and "friends" who found it less threatening to let sleeping dogs lie. Maybe this Christmas Santa will bring them all a backbone. For all of that, Wagner can rest on his aspen and lead the life he never deserved.
ReplyDeleteNo one is blaming anyone besides Wagner. The poster made the point that like Wagner, Dennis was a drinker. Calm down. No no is blaming him.
ReplyDeleteObviously, Wagner was setting up the foundation for his lies when he called Ziffren. He must have told Ziffren that Natalie was "missing" from the boat and it must have been done quite a while later because of Ziffren's statement that RJ was not immediately concerned.
ReplyDeleteNo, I disagree. By writing "So let us not paint Dennis as the picture of innocence either," that person (you?) is most definitely implying that Dennis shares blame for Ms Wood's death.
ReplyDeleteThe exclamation point was for emphasis only, nothing more.
No, it's not me. Obviously, you take any comment about Dennis is a very defensive manner. The poster was talking about Dennis drinking voluntarily, that Wagner did not pour the Scotch down his throat and force him to drink. That's how I took that comment. I think it's been established to the satisfaction of everyone who regularly posts on this blog that Robert Wagner has told a bucket of lies to cover up his culpability in the death of Natalie Wood. Why do some feel the need to defend Dennis? He made some big mistakes on that night and in the years that followed. He knows it, Marti knows it. I'm sure he has his regrets.
ReplyDeleteand Kevin, I can remember how some people on this board were convinced that you were a troll because you posting was becoming rather two sided. You can't always judge what someone is trying to communicate by the words they type, right?
ReplyDeleteSorry, I didn't mean to upset you.
ReplyDeleteIf the poster meant something else than he/she should say so. What does drinking have to do with Dennis' "innocence?"
Dennis made mistakes, and that was being human--I don't live in a glass house. Wagner deliberately caused the death of Ms Wood, and that was being inhuman. There was no intent to harm--no malice-- towards Natalie Wood, from Dennis.
If I sound defensive it is only because I think that should be made clear to people.
If the poster of that comment meant something else than he/she should not have used the word "innocence."
That's the way I read it.
I don't think the term "innocence" is in reference to Natalie's death.
ReplyDeleteLet's give it a rest today, out of respect to Natalie.
I'm doing all of this out of respect for Natalie. Getting Natalie's case reopened is the entire reason I write on this blog. I would hope it's your reason for writing here too. I'm sure it is.
ReplyDeleteI think the word "innocence" was referring to Natalie's death.
Remembering her for her life is what I plan to do today rather than bicker about who meant what when they said whatever.
ReplyDeletePosting on a blog will not get the case re-opened. We meet here to exchange thoughts, be kept up to date by Marti etc. The D.A. in L.A. County could care less what you and I believe to be true. You need more than posts on a blog to re-open a case, any case but especially one that has been closed as long as this one has.
That's fine coming from the person who started the 'bickering" to begin with.
ReplyDeleteYou might be happier on another site.
People can do great things when they put their minds to it.
You're right, we have nothing more to say to each other. I'm not a pessimist. Good Day
I beg to differ with you, um, Kevin. I posted very politely. You responded with "I disagree". IMO, YOU started the bickering when you accused another poster of blaming Dennis.
ReplyDeleteI don't intend to leave this blog. I'm not a pessimist either, I'm a realist.
I have much more to say but I will wait until this day passes.
In fact, Wagner did force Dennis to drink. He wanted Dennis good and drunk! Why? Dennis refused to drink and asked again to put on the search light. Wagner handed him a glass, poured booze and said, "Drink Dennis, we'll have a few drinks and wait for her." Dennis still refused, and Wagner gave him a look that chilled him through and through. Dennis drank. He sat there scared to death with all that was happening around him and he drank with his BOSS, who insisted he drink. Wagner kept refilling Dennis's glass. He wanted him drunk. Yes, Dennis feared for his life while trying to maintain a stream of logic, but nothing seemed logical.
ReplyDeleteDennis is completely innocent in bringing harm or causing harm to Natalie. His only mistake, which he regrets to this day, was in withholding information, but there are just as many reasons for that choice as to why he had a drink after Natalie was no longer on board.
Marti's comment should put the final clarity on why Dennis was drinking. Kevin was correct about the post's dig at Dennis. It always comes to this. Someone will post something salacious and then scream that they were misunderstood and no one can have an opposite opinion. It's an old game and I for one am really tired of it. I am not overly sensitive but some sentences speak for themselves. If they are not meant that way, then people need to express themselves in an unequivocal manner that leaves no room for interpretation.
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ReplyDeleteMany people have contacted a D.A. and still ended up dead. Dennis's plan was to free himself of L.A. He still needed to make a living while that plan was being worked for. He lived with Wagner because he was afraid to live anywhere else. He stayed close to culprit, and he stayed quiet for MANY reasons. He wanted to get as far away as possible. It took a few years, but Dennis had several obligations in Calif. after living there for almost a decade.
ReplyDeleteAs for forcing Dennis to drink, yes, that is virtually what Wagner did. "Force" is not an exaggerated word in this case. Dennis recalls Wagner's eyes were so threatening that Dennis actually wondered if he would survive the night. whether he drank or not. Sorry, but Dennis vividly recalls those kind of thoughts running through his mind at those moments when Wagner pulled out the booze, told Dennis to stay still, and insisted he drink. Therefore, Dennis felt FORCED to drink with Wagner. No, Wagner didn't tie him up and pour it down his throat. There are many "mental" ways to force a person to do something.
As for Dennis staying quiet, that was handled during the sickening drinking session, too. It was while they drank that Wagner manipulated Dennis even more. It was when he cried out for pity and pleaded with Dennis to say nothing, and then INSISTED he say nothing. Dennis was a young guy who was frightened, confused and needed time to plan a full escape from the tragedy. He knew it would follow him through life, but he also knew he'd better leave the country before he talked, which is EXACTLY what he did do after distancing himself from Wagner. We all hear of crazy things going on, some things hard to believe, but this all happened, and these kind of things are on the news and crime shows nightly! It intensifies in a high-profile case.
It's INSANE what some people will do to protect themselves, and Dennis was always suspicious of what could happen to him. Coupled with actual death threats, Dennis didn't take things lightly. He didn't even speak to family and friends about the tragedy.
So, while you weren't there and don't really comprehend the severity of what was happening that fateful night, please rest assured the scare tactics continued. Do you not remember reading in GNGS the night Wagner's brutes dragged Dennis down a sidewalk because he wanted to stay out past ten?
Please, don't question me in this manner about Dennis. GNGS speaks for itself why things went the way they did. I'm the one who helped nurse Dennis back to sanity. It may be hard to believe, but there isn't anyone who knows Dennis who believed he'd survive five years after the tragedy. We saw firsthand how his guilt for staying quiet crippled him. You have no clue how bad it was.
As for talking to a tabloid first, perhaps Dennis felt that was a safer way to spare himself from Wagner's wrath. He never believed for a second that Wagner would answer in the same tabloid. Soon after that we DID try to go through the police. To this day, they want this case to remain closed. A book was the only option, and I mean ONLY OPTION to get the truth to the public.
Also, no one kisses up to me at this blog. We all logically and intelligently discuss this case. It still is a case, closed or not. And soon it will be a case RE-OPENED.
Marti, you are quite nice to answer again everything most of us already understand. Did you happen to see that the owner of the Death of Natalie WOod forum answered the post about your book being self published? Did Frank, the owner, really talk with you?
ReplyDeleteYes, Frank did contact me last week after I contacted him. I gave him information he requested and he said he would do his own research with the publishers so he could verify the answers himself rather than just remove the post that was an outright lie. I just looked at his post and I appreciate that he followed through.
ReplyDeleteAs for defending Dennis, I completely understand why some people don't understand why this took so long, but that is not our doing. We really thought the police would get involved in 1983, and especially in 1992 when Geraldo offered them THREE attorney's opinions to reopen the case. Dennis offered to take a polygraph long ago. Why Dennis "waited" is not a matter of him not wanting the truth known long ago. It's a matter of the police doing their jobs and in this case, they haven't and have refused to to. They need to be pressured.
Who contacted the D.A. if reference to this case?
ReplyDeleteAs I said, I believe every word Dennis spoke in reference to the night Natalie died but there were avenues that he could have taken aside from the tabloid avenues. If a person can spill his guts to a tabloid reporter, he can spill them to a D.A.
IMO, Robert Wagner knew his wife was in the water and did nothing. He was concerned about himself, as usual. I wish Dennis had gone to the authorities and I don't doubt that Dennis, deep down inside, feels the same way. Any decent human being would.
Of course Dennis wishes he handled things differently. But if you think it's as simple as calling a D.A., it's not. Not in 1983, not in 1992, and not now. You think we didn't ask all of the info in GNGS to be submitted to the D.A.? You think we don't want the cops involved? Tabloids, TV Shows, Vanity Fair, Book Publishers, et al, have tried to get the authorities involved. DO you really think another phone call from Dennis is what will do it? No, that's not it. We've been told what it will take and we are in the process of working with the right people. D.A.'s don't take calls from people like Dennis Davern. Dennis didn't "go tabloid" because he thought it was the best avenue. At that time, it was the ONLY avenue. Rasure refused to talk with Dennis. He refused to talk with another key witness, Marilyn Wayne. We are up against the worst thing a person can encounter: authorities who don't care if an injustice occured. I'd be more than happy if you called the D.A. and set something up. Let me know if you get through. Dennis will be immediately available.
ReplyDeleteOk, everyone stayed out of it and let Marti answer. Happy? Or is Marti just overly sensitive too? Everyone knows provocative posts when they see them. That's not the answer you were looking for but it's definitely the one you deserved.
ReplyDeleteREALLY, MARTI, THE POLICE HAVE EVERYTHING THEY NEED TO REOPEN THIS CASE, THANKS TO YOU. THEY APPARENTLY DON'T WANT TO EMBARRASS THEMSELEVES.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I just noticed my caps were on. I want to say that I think it's so easy for people to whip off suggestions, but what do THEY do about it? I like how you answered. Let's see if any of us can make a phone call....we should all try it. As Marti said, Dennis is waiting for any one of us who can get through.
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ReplyDeleteFor those new to this blog, that is about the 10th time this person has given the same farewell speech. Amazingly, it's almost verbatim each time. They'll be back.
ReplyDeleteI was not going to post on this blog again but after your remark, I'll stay and keep on posting.
ReplyDeleteThat's fine, just keep the whining to a minimum, I'm tired of having to talk you off a ledge every time things don't go your way.
ReplyDeleteHow long did it take you to come up with that witty remark.
ReplyDeleteWho is asking for things to go his way? Grow up.
Any thoughts that might be different that what we read in GNGS is whining? Any questions about why Dennis handled things as he did is whining? Is that how Marti sees it?
She made it pretty clear how she sees it. Reread her post.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I'm the one who talked to you the last time you were going to leave (and a time before). After my post you suggested we all "start anew". Now here we are two weeks later and you were saying your goodbyes again. Yes, I classify that as whining. Either stay and toughen up or go and call us a bunch of meanies. I have no problem whether you post or not, I just get annoyed at you singing the same old song.
ReplyDeleteThere was no "last time". I don't know who you dealt with before but I post nearly every day on this blog. There was no "start anew" in relation to me. For the most part we agree but I voiced my feelings about the actions of Dennis and all hell broke lose. This started when one of you, Kevin, analyzed what another poster meant by what he or she said. The poster never clarified what they meant but I voiced my opinion, asked a few questions everyone gets irate. Toughen up? I suggest most of you need to toughen up.
ReplyDeleteThere is no "old song". This is the first time I have brought this up. Now I see how it is here. I see what can be said and what cannot be said.
Ok, that last sentence qualifies as whining again. This will be my last post today, so you are free to have the last word, whatever it is. I read the comments with Kevin today and it was a minor disagreement at best. Hell did not break loose today, look back at former posts and you will see how tense things can be. When the Lana post was first put up, I was definitely in the minority when I stuck up for her. I wrote a fairly long paragraph explaining why I chose to give her a pass. Another poster addressed me as "playing Lana's violin", but I chose to ignore it. I answered honestly and civilly and the poster answered in the same vein. We still believed our own opinion but it was cool, no escalation. I think you take offense easily, (just my opinion). Clearly, you are intelligent, you need to lead with that and keep emotion to a minimum. Now, as promised, I will say no more as I feel we have taken quite a bit of space today. I leave the floor to you, to use as you see fit.
ReplyDeleteThe statement that you label as whining is my telling how it seems to me that some topics are off limits. That's not whining, that stating a fact.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think you take offense easily. I haven't said anything that has not happened, I'm not making up stories about him to show him in a bad light. I am one of Dennis biggest supporters, Marti also. I respect what they are doing although I would like to see Dennis involved on the blog but that won't happen.
This guy is really annoying.
ReplyDeleteDennis is not a blogger. He is not a "computer person" ... he works on boats and has no interest in computer chatter. I maintain this blog because I am technically the author of GNGS. It's Dennis's account, but I did a lot of work for GNGS on my own, and I wrote the book. Many authors establish blogs and use the Internet to interact with others about their book topics. There are so many questions about "the mystery of Natalie Wood" that I thought I could help to answer some of those questions with a blog.
ReplyDeleteDennis is so relieved that GNGS and its truth is published. The burden of proof is off of him now. It's Wagner's (even Walken's) turn to explain. We've all heard from Dennis. He went so far to have his account polygraphed. I doubt the other two cruise survivors would ever volunteer their account on a machine.
Marti, in actuality, I think you are far more important to this case than Dennis himself. Without you, who went and verified his story, there would be no GNGS. You are Natalie's godsend, not Dennis. I'm fine talking with only you. (smile)
ReplyDeletebut without Dennis there would be empty pages. He is as important to the book as Marti is.
ReplyDeleteDon't hold your breath, Wagner will never come forward unless he has to, same with Walken. A polygraph with Wagner will never happen.
Yes, without Dennis, there is no truth for me to have told. That's why it was so important to have Dennis's account verified by polygraph testing. I ended my acknowledments by calling Dennis the truest author, and he is. Yes, I could've brought information to the table that the authorities missed without Dennis, but having Dennis was essential to the completion of GNGS. I thank him for his courage in finally telling the truth. He could've taken it to his grave with him. Dennis didn't need a book published for any reason beyond the telling of the truth. He is financially secure in his own marina business, he has a lovely family and a beautiful home, a second Victorian he rents out, and his willingness to come forward was a risk rather than an "investment." Both of us, we are simply SO RELIEVED that this book is available for anyone who cares about the truth behind this bungled case.
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ReplyDeleteHere we go again.
ReplyDeleteJust ignore this clown. Sounds like the same clown as before.
ReplyDeleteHe got all of that out in one breath. I was wondering when he was gonna come up for air.
Yes, relax everybody, it's Dennis and Marti's "biggest supporter".
ReplyDeleteSounds like Jerko, I mean Jocko.
ReplyDeleteJocko? I don't think so. He would never admit that Wagner is guilty which is totally obvious to anyone who looks at all of this with objectivity.
ReplyDeleteThis poster has a point about the internet chatter thing but I'll keep it to myself or I will labeled as Jocko. Not the best choice of words. I'll end it right there.
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ReplyDeleteDidn't mean he is, just that he is as annoying as Jerko.
ReplyDeleteWho cares if Dennis Davern was a drug addict? What does that have to do with what "RJ" did to Natalie?
You are barking up the wrong tree. Nobody is kissing anyone's ass. Stop with all of the drama.
Who called him a drug addict? The poster said "alcoholic". Maybe you should stop the drama.
ReplyDeleteI waa trying to make a point. I wasn't calling him a drug addict. It dosen't matter what Davern was or how he acted that night--HE DIDN'T CAUSE NATALIE TO END UP IN THE OCEAN WHERE SHE DROWNED.
ReplyDeleteDavern came forward with the truth. He is the only one out of the three men. I give him a lot of credit for that.
ReplyDelete1) The Internet is full of "chatter" -- it wasn't a bad choice of words. People chatter all over the Internet and it's something Dennis has never done. He barely uses a computer except for his work, and that is minimal use. So when I said that Dennis is not into Internet "Chatter" it's exactly what I meant -- that he's not accustomed to blogs, forums, discussions sites, etc. This is not idle chatter at this blog about Natalie. It is a discussion about the poor investigation into her case. Dennis told his story in a book I authored and is willing to stand behind the account but, as author, I am the one maintaining a blog. I believe the Internet is TOO full of chatter: everyone's talking and few are listening.
ReplyDelete2) Dennis was NOT an "active alcoholic" when Natalie died. Her husband was.
3) This is not the way I will seek justice for Natalie any longer since it doesn't seem to be working. I don't want a blog that looks like the forum. Seems everything I say or try to explain is picked at now to distort its meaning, and innocent people are accused of being this person or that person... and well, I don't want a replacement of the forum.
4) Dennis was an innocent bystander and was manipulated by Wagner. If you don't want to believe that, then believe what you want, but all of the polygraph tests Dennis passed prove to me he was a victim, not a culprit. He didn't remember everthing "30 years later" -- he remembered it for every minute since the day he saw and identified Natalie's lifeless body.
5) Thank you all for caring about Natalie. She is who this blog is intended for. I don't know who submits 90% of the posts, but if they are civil, I've tried to be fair. Sorry if I'm failing. I especially appreciate those of you who CLEARLY see the trees for the forest.
Marti, don't let this guy ruin a good thing. This blog has been a voice for the truth. It is the only place to get and discuss the truth.
ReplyDeletePeople that "get it" know Dennis is not the person who harmed or meant harm to Natalie. We get it. Don't get down b/c of this guy who dosen't get it.
Dennis admitted he lied to the police. He is willing to take his lumps. What more do people want?
ReplyDeleteWhen I heard Dennis do that radio interview last year (with Marti), I understood why Marti is his voice. He is the type of guy who just can't articulate his thoughts in an interview. That isn't meant as a put down. A lot of guys are like that. It makes perfect sense that Marti would be his proxy.
ReplyDeleteWhat this person keeps referring to as "ass kissing" is really support. The person is mistaking one for the other.
ReplyDeleteI think the majority of the people that blog here (including myself) see what we do here as lending support to Marti, and we genuinely care about bringing justice to Ms Wood. An undertaking such as this can be extremely trying. If not for the encouragement of other people, it would be easy to throw in the towel.
Thank you Anon 9:10. Dennis is not the most articulate person at all times. He sometimes leaves complete thoughts "hanging" when he speaks. Then people take it and distort it. Dennis knows this and ASKS me to please be a combined voice for the case. If you hear it from me, you are basically hearing it from Dennis.
ReplyDeleteIt's difficult to get everything out during an interview that you want to say. That's why I feel this blog is important for people searching for information -- FACTS -- about the investigation into Natalie's death. You are all correct: this blog is one of the few places on the Internet that offers the facts in depth about the investigation into Natalie's death.
It's an uphill battle, I realize that, but I've just decided I won't tolerate the suggestive comments. I work hard for Natalie's case and I won't allow uninformed people to spoil it.
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ReplyDeleteMarti, the comment about being articulate was from me. The last few Anon's were from me. I didn't want to get attacked so I posted Anonymous. It didn't feel right, for me, so I went back to using my regular signature.
ReplyDeleteIt became very clear to me that he has trouble articulating his thoughts. I've known so many people who have trouble like that, and they are very intelligent people. I thought the two of you made a good team in that interview. I honestly don't think Dennis could carry off a blog like this.
It is your blog and you have the right to do with it what you want. You have the right to delete any post you want. I was wrong when I butted in a few weeks ago.
I can't blame Dennis for how he acted. I don't know how I would have acted/reacted in that situation. At that time, I think he covered for Wagner because I think it would have been difficult to believe Wagner harmed Ms Wood on purpose. Honestly, I think it took a while for it to sink in exactly what happened. I'm glad that he finally got the story told.
To keep focusing on Mr Davern is a dead end. The focus needs to remain on the peson who was with Ms Wood at the time of her disappearance. The focus needs to remain on the person who was having a volatile argument with Ms Wood at the time she disappeared. The focus needs to remain on the person who said he never saw his wife again once she
retired to her stateroom, earlier that eveinng.
"Dennis did nothing to prevent it." How was Dennis going to prevent something he didn't know happened. That is so much Monday morning quarterbacking. It is not the real world.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't have said it better myself, Kevin. It's so easy for people to "Monday morning quarterback" when they haven't walked in the shoes of the person experiencing such a tragic event.
ReplyDeleteDennis HAD an attorney. The attorney told him to "STAY QUIET" -- Dennis was confused and disoriented. Yes, he felt "safe" at Wagners...the media was after Dennis like a pack of junkyard, vicious dogs. Dennis was more afraid of the media than of anything else. He was afraid for many reasons. Dennis could've taken so much from Wagner but he continued to work. He worked and paid his own way, from all the years before Natalie's death until this day after. Wagner wanted Dennis dependant upon him...it was obvious.
Dennis did nothing to harm Natalie and did not know what was the best move to make. Defending Dennis isn't "ass kissing" -- it's so easy to blame Dennis for what WAGNER did! Defending Dennis is necessary to keep the focus on the REAL CULPRIT. Natalie Wood is dead for ONE REASON and ONE REASON ONLY: her husband!
Natalie Wood's death remains UNINVESTIGATED for ONE REASON and ONE REASON ONLY: the authorities refuse to embarrass themselves. Dennis has given them all the info they need since the early 80's. They don't want this case reopened!
ReplyDeleteStop defending yourself to these people who can't understand the dynamics involved, Marti. I can't even fathom what living through the tragedy involved for Dennis: it was probably mayhem! Clearly, after Dennis escaped the mayhem, his head cleared and if he used the media, so be it. The media is the only force that to this day can get this case reopened. Dennis's story needs the media behind it. How sad that when you started getting the right kind of exposure from Nancy Grace that your publisher went out of business. Get the media on your side, Marti. It's your only hope. The police will deserve all they get!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I dealt with the Wagner/Dennis relationship after Natalie died, a while ago. I came to the conclusion that Dennis thought he was sharing something very deep with Wagner--the loss of Natalie. I don't think Dennis knew what Wagner was up to until Wagner got rid of Dennis.
ReplyDeleteYou know what, Kevin? I've often wondered that same thing myself. I think the manipulation went extremely deep. I think it was all too much for Dennis to handle mentally. He became a skeleton of himself, physically and mentally after Natalie's death for a long time. I think he was processing everything but fooled himself about exactly what really happened. Wagner had him believing he was "protecting" him, too. Dennis wasn't sure from exactly what, but the sheltered feeling at least kept Dennis safe from the outside world. Dennis was led to believe the outside world was his enemy. It was truly a form of brainwashing. The truth was in Dennis, he "knew" but he was afraid, and he didn't want to believe it. His deterioration said it all. Finally, with that desperate phone call to "spill it all" on Aug. 17, 1983, that he made to me, he was partially relieved of the burden, realized his mistake in letting it take so long, and then STILL wasn't sure how to handle things. When the BS from Walken and Wagner started appearing in the media along with plugs for their latest career endeavors, Dennis snapped and called a tabloid. He regrets his way of handling things, but he now understands what a true mess he was in and he sees how the tragedy truly took its toll on him. Dennis believes, after all of his processing, that there's only one way Natalie got into that ocean.
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ReplyDeleteNow, I won't be deleting "forever" -- I am holding all such annoyance posts in a file and if they continue, the IP will be considered a stalking annoyance and will be reported.
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ReplyDeleteWagner didn't "kick him out of the house" -- it was Dennis's CHOICE to leave the house, the sooner the better. GOODBYE!
ReplyDeleteTo answer another issue: Dennis and I have had SEVERAL attorneys involved in this case...all of this was mentioned in GNGS. All advised us to NOT approach the police for various professional reasons. So, we DID follow our OWN attorney's advice. This was through the 80's, the 90's and beyond with legal departments over Dennis's account we wanted published. This is not an "easy" case.
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ReplyDeleteWhat was said between our attorneys and us is personal. Get off the "tabloid dealings" -- the tabloids were the only part of the media not afraid of the truth for many years. I will delete all of your posts that insinuate things you have no clue about.
ReplyDeleteEvery time we were on the brink of getting Denni's account told, Wagner and HIS attorneys would step in. In fact, I had included in GNGS the letters that went back and forth between Wagner's attorneys and ours. They tried to "silence" us with threats to Dennis, but it didn't work. Our attorney told them in professional words what they could do with their threats, because even from the original paperwork an attorney wrote on Natalie's death, Dennis was guilty of nothing. Not withholding, not being an accessory, or anything of the nature. For the most part, and to this day, we we have been told the authorities will not cooperate with us because they will not want to reopen a case that will embarrass them. The letters were removed from the book by the publishing House editor only for reasons of book length. I am answering this for those wondering, but I will not get into what we discussed with attorneys. Dennis is willing to cooperate with authorities. They are the end being UNcooperative, as always!
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if the LAPD could become involved in this case?
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ReplyDeleteNice cover at the end. Same poster, different tone.
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ReplyDeleteCatalina Island is not handled by the LAPD. It is part of Los Angeles County but it is not policed by the LAPD. Like other cities that do not have their own police departments, Avalon and the rest of the island are under the county sheriff's department.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing (among SO many) that worked in Wagner's favor was the presence of LACSD's particular "investigators" (i.e, Rasure and his non-existent partner). It makes one wonder what might've happened differently if Rasure weren't the lone lead guy on this case (or if it had been someone different).
It also makes one ponder what could've been different if it HAD been under LAPD's watch. Granted, the LAPD has had its own historical troubles, but it is not under the rule of the county supervisors. It sounds like Supervisor Deane Dana helped play a role in squelching this investigation. Politics played a VERY large role in why Natalie's death was swept under the rug. That just adds one more layer of injustice and outrage to this tragedy.
And it was only recently that I found this out, Marianne! There was an article in the LA Times about this (Roger Smith was interviewed and spoke openly about it for the article) but then suddenly, the reporter he dealt with abandoned him. This was not long after Natalie's death.
ReplyDeleteIt is impossibly frustrating, and believe me, I come to tears many times over why the media, TRUE journalists, don't help to do something about this even after all these years. This case is the epitome of a botched case, through and through.