There have always been such good and decent people supporting Dennis and myself, people we've turned to, people whose advice was a godsend at crucial deciding points in our mission to get the truth about Natalie Wood's death known.
Dennis's niece, a sharp, educated, intelligent young attorney, always reminded us that "truth is its own defense." We know Wagner's attorneys know it, too, and we figure that's why they probably advise him to remain quiet about "Goodbye Natalie Goodbye Splendour."
Here's what Dennis's niece, Amy, posted on my Facebook account yesterday when I re-posted the Natalie petition there again:
Amy Knapp commented on your link.
Amy wrote: "I have no doubt that the claims and allegations as contained in my Uncle's book,"Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendour" are true. Marti Rulli, the author of the book, did a wonderful job in relaying and telling my Uncle Denny's side of this horrific tragedy. The investigation into Natalie Wood's death should be reopened and further examined by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. There are still so many questions that have not been adequately addressed and/or even answered by Robert Wagner, but my Uncle has been continually and unfairly been depicted and scrutinized in the media for the past 30 plus years for only telling authoriites the truth...All I have to say to this is read the book and come to your own conclusions....and for the record my Uncle Denny adored Natalie and there isn't anything he would not have done for her.... I am proud to call Dennis Davern my uncle...I love you, Uncle Denny!"
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WOW! This comes from her heart. I'm with you Amy and I'm proud of Dennis and Marti too. It shows in the book how much Dennis adored Natalie. Thank you for sharing this. Thanks all. Pam
ReplyDeleteI'm glad that his niece made that post. Sometimes I'm so focused and interested in the case that I forget it doesn't just involve Wagner, Natalie, Marti and Dennis. Anyone that loves these people also experiences the highs and lows of this case. I guess that's why I like when you share your holiday traditions or talk about Dennis explaining Natalie to his daughter. It reminds us that you have complex lives outside of this case. That makes it even more admirable that you persevere on a case that takes so much of your time and gets you flack from detractors and offical obstructors. Thanks to Amy and all of your family and friends that give you the strength to stay on this mission.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing this, Marti. We have read about Wagner having family and friends who love and believe in him. Of course Dennis has the same but it's not as visible because Dennis is not a celebrity. How nice it is to see someone who loves and believes in him express it in such a touching manner.
ReplyDeleteThanks for this, Amy and thanks to Marti for sharing it.
I've written many times that I just can't come up with a good reason why Dennis would lie about the night Natalie died. The entire book (about that three day weekend) rings very true to my ears. I don't think he would put Wagner with Natalie if Wagner wasn't there with Natalie when she went missing.
ReplyDeleteMany people claim that Dennis was drunk and therefore his testimony is unreliable. I have to disagree about Dennis' state of intoxication. For one, he managed fine getting the four of them to and from the restaurant in a dinghy that had no headlight (broken) and in the dark. Also, Dennis strikes me as the kind of man who cares about what people think of him--I mean about the way he performs his job. I don't think he would let himself get intoxicated to the point where he couldn't perform his duties and where he would put the lives of his employers in danger. This has nothing to do with the drinking Wagner had Dennis engage in after Natalie went missing.
I've been intoxicated in my lifetime, and whenever something out of the ordinary happened (like a fight or someone was in need of serious help) I sobered up very fast...immediately. I believe this has to do with adrenaline that the body pumps into the bloodstream from the adrenal glands. It's the response that is referred to as the fight-or-flight response. I would guarantee that that same response happened to Dennis at the instant Wagner told him Natalie was missing. From then on Dennis would have been hyperalert.
I also want to say that I'm becoming more and more aware of the way Wagner has let Natalie be portrayed as "crazy Natalie" since her death, to cover his own crazy behavior that November night, 1981. The very behavior that led to her death. Natalie wasn't crazy that weekend, Wagner was. Natalie wasn't enraged, Wagner was.
Not only did Wagner see fit to end Natalie's life, he also has taken it upon himself to try and ruin Natalie's reputation. Unfortuantely, for Wagner, he has failed miserably at the latter. All of this has been done to keep his own name and image unsoiled. These actions fit perfectly with the statement he made as to why he didn't want to call attention to a search for Natalie...he said he couldn't afford the bad publicity.
I meant to write that Dennis would have been hyperalert the moment Wagner smashed that wine bottle.
ReplyDeleteEven in his book he does the "I loved her so much" dance but there are many backhanded compliments, moments in which he tries to make himself appear to be a victim of "crazy Natalie".
ReplyDeleteWagner's supporters use the "Dennis was a drunk" to discount what he saw and heard and as a means of attacking his character. What about Wagner? In reading his book one can see a man with a serious drinking problem. Whenever he told of something that he said or did that was not "wonderful", he blamed it on the alcohol. He never seemed to conclude that he should not be drinking so much.
As I was reading Amy's comment, I thought of the attacks on Dennis' character over the years by people who did not know of him other than through his association with Natalie and Wagner and the night Natalie died. And again, I thought about Wagner's character. Dennis has never boasted about standing outside someone's home with a loaded gun thinking about killing a person, Dennis has never boasted about having someone brutally beaten because they were not kind to a friend of his. Wagner said all of this and more but Dennis' character is attacked and Wagner is labeled as a "gentleman" and Dennis is labeled as the drunk? Think about it. Wagner seems to have a penchant for using violence as a means of dealing with situations that he dislikes or that he cannot control.
As Kevin wrote, it was clearly Wagner who was out of control that night. He was the only person on that boat that night who smashed a glass bottle on a table, in the faces of 3 people. That was a violent act. He was the only person who could not contain himself in front of a guest. Natalie was able to keep her cool in front of Walken but Wagner lost it and later on, he lost it again and Natalie lost her life as a result. And what did Wagner do? He opened a bottle of Scotch.
Kevin, everyone mentally sobered up after the bottle was smashed. Dennis wasn't "drunk out of his mind" that night. That concept is almost laughable and limited to a few contrary minds. They party of four that night had dinner drinks. Dennis had no problem performing his job and secured the dinghy for the night when they had returned to the yacht. Wouldn't you think the authorities would've checked that dinghy light and tried to connect it to something? Anything? Like maybe the dinghy light had been broken while Natalie was in it or asked if it had been out earlier in the evening? Again, they asked NO QUESTIONS you would think should be standard in such a death scene. No one, and I mean NO ONE, ever knew about thst dinghy headlight until Dennis told me about it and it's now actually NEW case information published in GNGS. GNGS is the perfect case report that could be used as a basis for the information missed by the authorities. Key words there are "could be" if the authorities cared about justice for Natalie.
ReplyDeleteYou've got a perfect perception of this entire truth, including the manner in which Wagner has not only tried to taint Natalie's legacy, her reputation, but also how he still uses her death to enhance his own image. Most people in their busy lives don't go looking as deeply for all of these details you've pointed out, but I can't begin to express how refreshing, how wonderful it is that so many of you here see right through this botched case, Wagner's agenda, the truth of the night Natalie died, and the absurdity that Dennis Davern would have a reason to lie. How wonderful it would be if only the authorities in this case were as astute.
It's Wagner's behavior after Natalie went missing that makes me feel justified in saying that he killed Natalie.
ReplyDeleteNo person in his or her right mind would use the excuse of "bad publicity" as a reason to not look for a woman missing from a boat. A woman who couldn't swim. I can't come to any other conclusion. I feel Wagner new Natalie was helpless in the water and he was waiting for her to die.
Remember, we are talking hours passing between Natalie missing and calling for help. This wasn't, I'll scare her for a few seconds and then fish her out.
Absolutely! His actions after her "disappearance" were highly suspect. His wife, who was afraid of deep, dark water, who can't swim, is missing from their boat in dark of night and he tries to justify the 4 hour delay in calling for a professional search by saying that he did not want bad publicity? How can that possibly make sense to anyone?
ReplyDeleteIf he wanted to frighten her, which would a cruel thing to do, he would not have waited 4 hours to call for a water search, a helicopter search, a professional search. Waiting 4 hours is waiting to make certain that there was no chance of survival. How sad that is to think about.
However you slice it, Wagner's actions that night do not jive with his version of what happened. He has told the story differently, depending upon his audience. The 4 hour wait has always been the big one with me. Taking the 4 hour wait into consideration, his story does not make sense and when something does not make sense, it is usually not true. He's lying and he's been lying for over 29 years. He despicable!
What he told Roger Smith is most despicable. He basically called her a slut. Ok, people, what husband with a missing wife would say he thought she was out screwing around in the ocean on a rainy miserable night? He's as quilty as all sin.
ReplyDeleteI agree. As far as that's concerned, Natalie was a famous woman, everyone knew who she was. That was a ridiculous thing to say. He was trying to dirty her because he knew what he had done.
ReplyDeleteIf people only knew some of the truths about this man!
It's obvious who released the dinghy.
ReplyDeleteRJ's actions after Natalie's disappearance are what convinced me there's much more to this story than we've been told (until GNGS was published).
ReplyDeleteI've wondered why RJ seems to have few nice things to say about Natalie in the years since her death. What I've surmised is that Natalie must have said some things to RJ that night that he has never let go of. Maybe things about divorce, criticizing RJ's career, even revealing old secrets to the public, or threatening to destroy RJ's career. Perhaps her comments pushed him over the edge and triggered violence. Maybe RJ even has anger at Natalie for "making" him commit a crime against her. It's chilling to think about.
Frequently I think of Natalie's daughters. What do they think about RJ making it sound like Natalie was "crazy" or slutty or whatever? They had to have thought about that weekend a thousand times over. Did Natasha notice that things weren't right between RJ and Natalie and that's why she didn't want them going out on the yacht that weekend? Did the girls see or hear suspicious stuff from RJ in the weeks and months after Natalie's death? It sort of breaks my heart that after all that, Courtney said in an interview that she doesn't really remember her mom very much (she considers Willie Mae her mother) and Natasha added "Wagner" to her last name. I can't imagine how devastated Natalie would feel about those developments.
from KB
Natalie would not have threatened to destroy anyone's career. I doubt that his career came up in their argument that night but it was very much on his mind when he making up the lies that he wanted to be told to the police.
ReplyDeleteIt's possible that she told him that she had enough and that she intended to see a lawyer and he did not want that. He liked being married to Natalie Wood. Maybe he was afraid that she would finally reveal the truth about the reason for the first divorce, that she found him with a man or that someone else would reveal it.
I doubt that she "triggered" his violence as he seemed to have a violent streak apart from her.
I'm sure Wagner fed Natalie's daughters a potpourri of lies. He has told so many lies over the years. His book is a mass of lies. Even people who knew him have said that he bent the truth in his book to suit his agenda.
Natalie seemed to have a lot of personal dignity. She also wasn't known for putting her business out in the street, so I surmise the chance of her threatening to expose him on any level to be not credible. Being married myself, I would bet that the argument centered solely on their relationship and what each of them were fed up with. We already know Wagner was a powder keg and I'm sure his overbearing personality and drinking problem were becoming a source of irritation to Natalie. A normal couple would divorce or work things out. Wagner chose a more sinister option. Ultimately, the ball falls into Wagner's court every time and under every scenario.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I left out the part about Walken. Of course her embarassment of how he treated their guest would have been the opening shot. From there I think you're into their relationship.
ReplyDeleteNor would she have hurt her children by trying to diminish him in their eyes. If they divorced she would have been as discreet as she was the first time and the second.
ReplyDeleteI have to think a long the same lines as what KB and Kevinr state here, not on destroying Wagner's career, but on divorce, in the heat of fighting with drinking involved you will do and say things that you may not other wise. Natalie was Russian like being Irish (me) that temper could fly and I bet she must of had it with Wagner.
ReplyDeleteWell one thing that stands out like the Big Red Flag is: His actions after her "disappearance" were highly suspect. Sometimes a flash goes through my mind, Did it happen in the heat of a moment?
Something I would like to bring up is I read last night on the internet that Jill St John came out of retirement about 2 months BEFORE Natalie was killed and she had moved back to Beverly Hills very close to where Natalie and Wagner's home was,and Natalie was off working and I knew they had started seeing each other 2 months right after he killed her. I found this a red flag, Wagner did want to move the Splendour where it would be less populated Does anyone else think this is just not right?
People who attack Dennis' character are Wagner's fan's and they do so because they do not what to face that Wagner is a MONSTER AND KILLER.
That's all for now, Thanks all. Pam
Speaking of children, the first thing my mother ever taught me was that no one could make you do anything. Your reaction to whatever happened was your choice. I have hammered the same theme of personal responsibility to my daughter. That's why no scenario of why Wagner lost it and then did the deed is going to fly with me.
ReplyDeletePam,
ReplyDeleteI also have a flash temper and have been in "the heat of the moment" many times. I am proud to say I have never layed a hand on anyone, I don't even spank my daughter. It all goes back again to personal responsibility. Here's the only out I will give Wagner. He is a psychopath and as such is incapable of taking responsibility for anything, despite his baloney of "feeling responsible for Natalie's death". That's just phony, pity me, PR. He really believes that everything is everyone else's fault and that it is other people doing things TO HIM. Yes, I long ago commented on Wagner's determination to move the boat to a more isolated part of the island. It always seemed premeditated to me. Jill St. John? Hard to say. I always felt his quick dating of her was an example of his callous, narcissistic desire to do what benefits him and his inability to feel true love for Natalie or anyone else. I know what you seem to be implying with him and St. John but frankly I couldn't stand for this story to be anymore sordid that it already is.
I think it's impossible to know exactly what was said or threatened during Natalie's last argument. I come from a family where *everyone* has a hot temper and some nasty things can be said in the heat of the moment. They may not come out as "I will destroy your career," but as insinuations instead. Knowing how obsessed RJ was with publicity, one comment like that could have set him off. Just a few choice words from Natalie, whether she meant to follow through or not, could have made the difference to him. (I'm not condoning his behavior in any way.)
ReplyDeleteYes, Natalie was very discreet about all kinds of personal things, meaning she didn't reveal certain truths to the world at large. But who knows what she might have said in private? Especially if she was totally fed up with RJ's behavior.
from KB
KB,
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, I'm not sure you're understanding how personal responsibility works. No one can set you off unless you CHOOSE to go through the roof. Even if Natalie stood toe to toe with him and threatened to shove a martini glass through his eye (which she wouldn't)it is still not justification for someone's bad acts. He could walk away and drink the night away on deck. Certainly an option that would seem to appeal to his interests. So he had two options no matter what was said, walk away or give in to his baser instincts. We all know which way he went. It was even a choice to pursue Natalie to the cabin instead of just staying away from her. We all have choices. Wagner made his irrespective of anything she may or may not have said. It's just words. If we all act on them you can kiss civilization goodbye.
Natalie was MORTIFIED after Wagner smashed the bottle. Remember, she had been on the Island the night before, with Dennis in the hotel room, venting about how angry she was that Wagner wanted to move the boat to the Isthmus in the cold dark, rainy night near midnight! She was furious after the bottle smashing. In fury, and given the screaming type of yelling Dennis heard (words so loud he couldn't even decipher them) she was certainly "giving it" to her husband. I would suspect she was saying things like, "How dare you?" "You've gone TOO far this time!" "This is IT, RJ, you will NEVER do this again" ... things like that, and who knows, she could've esily in her anger said things like "Maybe it's time for an attorney" -- the exact words we'll never know, but because Wagner had accused Walken of wanting to bed Natalie, he was angry, too, and obviously had let his jealousy reign over reason. His ego was doubly damaged as he saw Natalie friendly with Walken, admiring Walken's work, and then Wagner was probably mad at himself for smashing the bottle, too... but to think at those raging moments that Natalie might actually leave him fueled his anger. He said, "Get off my fucking boat" (Dennis DID hear this), and Wagner probably meant..."You want to leave me? Then, you're going to leave me NOW!"
ReplyDeleteIn the tragic aftermath, how else could this "gentleman" reconcile such a sinister argument without trying to convince himself it all wasn't his fault? Yes, I think there are many deep, dark mental factors involved.
That's true KB but we were talking about her threatening to blow a whistle on him and she would not have done that, I don't think she'd threaten to do that. I think she was pissed because he was behaving like a jerk in front of a guest. He embarrassed her. Who knows what they said to each other. We do know that RJ said "Get the f... off my boat."
ReplyDeleteI keep wondering how Natalie got all of her bruises? Especially the abrasion on her left cheek and the one near her wrist.
ReplyDeleteThe coroner's theory goes out the window because we know Natalie wasn't trying to board the dinghy.
I saw this story about a child that drowned. A man (the ex-boyfriend of the girl's mother)is being tried for her murder. A wrist bruise is mentioned:
"Oklahoma medical examiner says drowning victim had signs of bruising An Oklahoma state medical examiner testified in a first-degree murder trial Thursday that a 2-year-old drowning victim had a bruise on her wrist and developing bruises underneath her scalp By JANE GLENN CANNON NewsOK.com Published: 12/10/2010 10:25 AM Last Modified: 12/10/2010 10:25 AM NORMAN — A state medical examiner testified Thursday in a Cleveland County jury trial that an autopsy on a 2-year-old girl who drowned at Draper Lake showed a fresh bruise on her wrist and developing bruises underneath her scalp.Based on the findings, Dr. Collie Trant said he decided to visit the lake accompanied by a boy who had told investigators he saw his father pull the girl into the lake and dunk her several times.Donald Reeser, 30, Midwest City, is charged with first-degree murder in the death of Allie Croom on June 18, 2009. Reeser was at the lake in southeast Oklahoma City with his ex-girlfriend Amber Croom, her two children, one of whom was Allie, and his son, Brady, when the drowning occurred.Brady Reeser, then 5, told the medical examiner that Allie was lying on a rocky projection in the lake when his father pulled her into the water and dunked her five times, Trant testified."
I'm glad that he is being tried for murder. That's one piece of trash off the streets. I'm sure this creep will have a story of why it wasn't his fault. Most likely, horseplay that went wrong. There are many psychopaths among us, luckily the majority don't kill, they just lie and avoid responsibility for anything. For those that do, no one needs to give them a "reason" to act out.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 5:15, "with all due respect" I don't think you fully read any of my comments on this post before you commented. (Besides, it's quite bold, or arrogant, of you to guess how much I know about personal responsibility when we're both completely anonymous here.) I said in my comments that "I'm not condoning his behavior in any way." If you need me to restate it in a way you might understand better, here you go: "His violent or malignant actions were not justified regardless of what Natalie said to him."
ReplyDeleteI also know from much experience in tempestuous relationships that one spouse can 'set off' the other spouse with words. If you've never reacted irrationally to a partner's hurtful words, then you don't know what it's like. Again, if you didn't catch it above and in this comment, I never said RJ's actions were justified.
To clarify, I'm "thinking out loud" about what I think may or may not have happened. Unless you were there or you have an audio tape of their last argument, you don't know what Natalie said. I have always said "I think" or "it seems" or "maybe this happened." I've never asserted that I know exactly what happened or what was said, even though you seem to imply you know what Natalie did or didn't say during that argument.
Oh yeah, comment 8:53 was from KB.
ReplyDeletefrom KB
KB, I have no idea why you feel the need to get snotty with me. I wasn't talking about you personally in the personal responsibility category. I meant only that it implies a person takes responsibility no matter what is said to them. I have no problem reading people's comments and I know that you were exploring ideas and not condoning anything he may have done and I didn't accuse you of doing otherwise. I have no idea what was said between Wagner and Natalie and I never claimed to. I guessed at what might have been said or not the same as you. I didn't think Natalie would threaten him and I still don't. Just my opinion. Perhaps you need to reread my comments without any bias due to as you said personal experience. I know when someone is making accusations and when they are thinking out loud. My impression was that you were doing the latter.
ReplyDeleteEvery comment in this thread is filled with logic and reason. Let's not become on edge with each other due to recent action in another thread. We're all making sense again and not one of us knows what was said in that terrible argument between a husband and wife. What we do know is that the husband made sure it would be his wife's final argument. I'm sure they both said some terrible things to each other which led to them doing some terrible things to each other. Dennis said he heard things hitting the walls. Natalie would've had every right to throw the first vase (which doesn't mean she actually threw a vase for those oversensitive about Natalie). When a husband and wife go after each other, it can get messy but when one loses all control and seriously hurts the other, that's absolutely no excuse for losing it so bad you end someone's life. In the end, it wasn't worth taking Christopher on that cruise, was it? That's what I think Robert Wagner's anger wanted to prove to Natalie. That is so tragic.
ReplyDeleteKnow what bothers me especially? People seem to view the argument as a typical spousal issue that takes us no further to the real core of this issue. A woman was murdered. We know it. Natalie would never have gone in the water by choice, thus we know she was assisted in that respect. How convenient to let her drift away.
ReplyDeleteThis domestic dispute led to murder but somehow that tends to lighten the burden of this case: husband and wife fought, wife died. It happens.
I think that's the attitude with alot of people: Wagner isn't viewed as someone who will kill again thus he's afforded the chance to go on with his life, like OJ Simpson was until he robbed with a gun, but Wagner's a calmer sociopath. He didn't draw blood, he's not going to rob an Oscar that should've been his with a gun, though he did use a gun once, oh right, but that was when Natalie "made him" use a gun when cheating, right?
Yep, this is all become more clear now. We have a mellow sociopath, acceptable due to an insensitive wife: it's okay if he and Jill aren't disturbed by a book from a employee, right? Aferall, they did move to Aspen to enjoy quieter years. Why, he wouldn't hurt a fly!
God, please get this guy.
BTW,
ReplyDeleteGood morning!
I despise the law and the media more each day for ignoring this travesty of justice.
I think it did begin as a serious marital argument and at some point, the violence began. No one is saying it was a little marital spat.
ReplyDeleteIt's possible that he hurt her physically at some point, hit her with something. Everyone who knew them would see the bruising and ask what happened. What would be worse for his precious image? Maybe that's what he was referring to when he was talking to Dennis about protecting his image, maybe that's why he trashed her to Roger Smith.
Let her drift and die, the bruising would be questioned but not specifically connected to him. If she had lived, it would have been.
If you look at the diagrams of Natalie's autopsy, specifically 20B, you see she had a 4" bruise plus a 1" bruise on the lower back of her right arm. Could the dinghy make those bruises through Natalie's down jacket? Also, I believe it shows a bruise on the left wrist too.
ReplyDeleteLook at all of those bruises on her legs. Why are they on both the front and back of Natalie's legs? If, as Noguchi claimed, they were from trying to climb into the dinghy, why are they on both sides? The rear bruises are very high up on the backs of Natalie's legs.
Than there is the facial bruise. An awful lot of bruising. I don't understand how Noguchi excused all of Natalie's bruises?
I looked up "superficial bruising." It means that the bruises are near the surface and not deep into the skin. It does not mean that they are not significant bruises.
Dennis only saw Natalie's bruises on the front of her body. Little did he know how many were on the back of Natalie's body.
ReplyDeleteKB,
ReplyDeleteWagner had told Dennis he was going to go apologize to Natalie. Maybe he had a moment of regret over having smashied the wine bottle and instantly knew he'd better apologize fast. But, by that time, after Natalie had fought with him Friday night as well and had put up with his rudeness Saturday night at dinner, she was deeply angered and mortified that such a display occured in front of her guest. I don't know what reasoning (if any was used) she brought to the forefront while arguing with Wagner, but she had mentioned "lawyer" the night before with Dennis and also mentioned Wagner's excessive drinking. She very well could've said those same thoughts to Wagner during the fight and that very well could have triggered the "pin" on the grenade of all reason in his mind. I sense a deep-rooted resentment being involved, probably based on his own insecurities, for him to have treated the situation the way he did after Dennis discovered Natalie was missing. There's no way he was thinking about any one but himself at that point. The names Courtney and Natasha could not have entered his mind. His anger ruled all.
For those who question why Dennis didn't do more, remember, he was asked to "go away" and told to not get involved when he knocked on the stateroom door to try to calm things down. He really didn't know how far to "get involved" after being told not to. Dennis could've very well have went to his own quarters at that time, which was farther forward than Walken's cabin, but he didn't. He went to the bridge above the stateroom to make sure things would settle down. When the fight got worse, Dennis then went into "protect the couple" mode.... he still was not thinking Natalie was going to be physically harmed. He turned on music...he still heard the yelling...he saw them come out to the back deck.... he heard "get off my effing boat." When it quieted, he still didn't go right to bed...he went to the deck to confront the situation. This startled a shaken, nervous, sweating, disheveled Wagner into a decision mode. It could have been so easy to turn on the searchlight, to grab the radio and alert all nearby boats and ground workers instantly that Natalie was in the water somewhere. That's when decisions were crucial and Wagner's was to DO NOTHING, SAY NOTHING. But, he knew Dennis wouldn't go along with that so he quickly feigned concern and suggested Dennis search the ENTIRE boat, and that also bought Wagner a little time to make another choice. That choice was to open a bottle of scotch, and to calm Dennis down and make it appear that they should wait for her to return. Wagner by this time was "working" on his CHOICE to leave Natalie fend for herself.
I agree with all the comments here... this is a travesty of justice, this is unacceptable, and where is the law despite the chances of Wagner ever being violent to the same measure again?
You can't do something like this and have a lead detective go around defending "accident" -- I get so angry over this again and again.
As for Natalie's bruises. In my opinion, they speak for themselves. She could NOT have been wearing socks if those bruises occurred while trying to get into a dinghy from the water. "Superficial" bruises, as Kevin said, does not necessarily mean "light bruises" it only means blood wasn't drawn. Punching someone can cause a superficial bruise..grabbing someone can cause them...sqeezing, pinching...etc...
What a bungled mess.
In the Coroner's Report it says that the bruises were superficial and PROBABLY sustained at the time of drowning.
ReplyDeleteHow does one become bruised while drowning? "Probably" indicates that they had no idea and they were satisfied with that. Case closed! It also states in this paragraph that it's impossible to state an exact time of death but they concluded that death occurred at midnight, November 28th.
Also, in the report the bruises were described as "fresh" which means that they were not old bruises.
I'm aghast that a homicide detective would be satisfied with "probably". No one thought to examine the 3 men at that point. "Probably" was OK with the detectives of the LACSD?
ReplyDeleteThey also closed the cased on the info that she PROBABLY fell overboard while tying up a dinghy!
ReplyDeleteAghast, yes!
It's in the report, the word "probably" is in the report! WOW
ReplyDeleteI wonder what Noguchi would think of all of those black and blue marks if he knew that Natalie was fighting with Wagner before she died?
ReplyDeleteThis is why the case needs to be re-examined before that bastard dies.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Natalie was floating in cold water for over 8 hours. Cold water can diminiish the appearance of a bruise.
ReplyDeleteIs that a fact, Kevin? If so, it makes me wonder how terrible the bruises would have been had she not been in the water. Maybe then Clouseau and the others would have got a clue how maliicious the situation really was.
ReplyDeleteIt's common sense, really. Cold water is recommended as an immediate treatment for bruising.
ReplyDeleteMarti, on your statements to KB today at 9:12am I have copy and paste into a note post on facebook so that is will draw my friends to your blog,I believe it really shows what your blog is all about and I pray it works, like I have said before I post two to three times a day on my facebook, this blog and the petition and I DON'T CARE if my friends get sick of me or block me, I believe with all my heart that Justice will prevail for Natalie and it will be because of YOU and DENNIS with all of us backing you.
ReplyDeleteI "think" she got those bruise's from Wagner using his foot on her and graping her from getting away from him and God knows what else he did. Why else would he want to get home so fast and stay in bed for a week, so he could hide all the evidents from anyone WHO should have looked.
Those are my thoughts. Thanks all. Pam
Oh and I have been watching Natalie's movies over again and her acting came from her heart and what she felt, and knowing now what her life had been like I can see in her performances a very much part of herself and even thou you know she was very talented drawing you into her, you feel the pain she must of felt in her life.
I tested the socks and coat, but never shoes. Even if the police figured it was an accidental fall when Natalie was re-tying a dinghy, her lack of shoes is a red flag on that theory also. Even if they thought the shoes fell off, they never asked if she was wearing shoes. Were shoes missing? Slippers? Sneakers? You get my point. The investigation continually worsens as more and more facts are discovered (thanks for the input on the word PROBABLY -- yes, it's right on the autopsy). Since the word "probably" was what this case was based on, shouldn't they PROBABLY reinvestigate? There are more unanswered questions than questions ever asked. Yes this case is one of the most botched in history.
ReplyDeleteThe importance of asking about the shoes...the red flag.... is, why would she be out on a wet deck tending a dinghy withOUT shoes? Good cop question never asked.
ReplyDeleteMarti, do you know if any physical evidence is still in existence? Her socks and down jacket? Were there any photos taken of her body and are those photos available for a forensics expert to examine? Curious.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, Hollywood is full of cases like that. There was a famous director in early Hollywood who was found dead on his floor. The cops called it an accidental death until they rolled him over later and found a bullet hole. A book was written about it. I read it so long ago I can't remember the name. Anyway, they figured out the mother of a starlet he was directing did it. She got away with it too,due to bad police work and certain powerbrokers sweeping it under the rug.
ReplyDeleteI remembered! The book was called A Cast of Killers. It was fascinating. Really gives you a glimpse into Hollywood cover-ups and for what reason justice isn't served. If I remember correctly, the director was valuable but the starlet was viewed as more so, hence he became collateral damage.
ReplyDeleteAll of the evidence still exists, but a court order from someone in the family is needed to view it. We were refused.
ReplyDeleteGee, I wonder why?
ReplyDeleteThat certainly speaks volumes!
He leaves her alone in a graveyard, sells all of the burial space around her so that her kids could not be there with her when their time comes but HIS permission is needed for someone to look at the evidence in her death.
The police won't need his permission if the case is re-examined.
Is Lana a close enough family member to make the request? Sorry, I have to run but I just remembered what might make that book interesting to you. The author wasn't investigating that crime. He was doing a biography about King Vidor. He stumbled onto the evidence during his research and put the pieces together himself. Too late for the director but the truth is now in book form for anyone to read, just as you did for Natalie.
ReplyDeleteAny blood relative can request it, but they would need a court order, too. Wagner would be the last person who would request it, but his permission isn't necessarily needed...a judge would determine if it should or could be released.
ReplyDeleteHis permission may not be needed but he would do all he could to stop it, if Lana made that request.
ReplyDeleteI wish we could all get togehter for a sit-in or a protest on this case but I realize we're most likely scattered all over the states. I'd love walk in a circle outside a morning talk show or outside the LACSD's with big signs that say: GIVE NATALIE WOOD A VOICE! READ GNGS FOR THE TRUTH! THE LACSD FAILED NATALIE WOOD! REOPEN THE WOOD CASE! That would be an awesome day! That's how MAD and FURIOUS this case makes me.
ReplyDeletewalking in a circle is what I meant.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I can't wait for the petition to be handed in. I sure hope someone covers it, Marti.
Hey Anony 6:52pm: I with you on that, I would come to Calif for that, course I'm not all that far NV. Thanks all. Pam
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:59AM
ReplyDeleteYes, cold will constrict the capillaries that bleed into the skin and cause the discoloration.
"In the Coroner's Report it says that the bruises were superficial and PROBABLY sustained at the time of drowning."
ReplyDeleteDoesn't that mean that the coroner did not know how Natalie got her bruises? If the coroner had the truth about that night, he could have come to an entirely different conclusion.
The coroner heard about an argument but was told to shut up about it and he shut up. Isn't that odd? The detectives were mad at the coroner for mentioning the argument. I think Noguchi suspected more, but was held back. He got fired for being mouthy about this case. That says it all!!! Also, the petition is our best way to protest this case. I hope it means something in the long run. I wouldn't mind giving the sheriff's department a piece of my mind, the media too, but let's all hang in there. Maybe this will be Natalie's year.
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly what it means, Kevin. They saw the fresh bruising, did not know where it came from but they closed the case in spite of it.....or maybe because of it.
ReplyDeleteNoguchi made reference to an argument between Wagner and Walken. It caused hysteria with the press. Detective Wilson said that they had not heard any talk of an argument and the men were checked for marks. That's a lie. No one was checked for marks. So many lies were told within the first few hours when the truth was critical. Why were so many lies told about a death that was "accidental".? Why would a husband lie about his own actions on the night of the death of his wife if it was "accidental"? This infuriates me!
RJ Wagner cared more about losing his dog than losing his wife.
ReplyDeleteWhat also infuriates me is the Wagner fans who still see their idol as their fantasy world's Jonathan Hart. One only has to look at the Robert Wagner Face Book page set up by his fan club Presodent or some such nonsense to see the type of mentality we and especially Marti is dealing with in the attempt to get the truth out there. One perusal of the photos is all a person needs. Chock a bloc with photos of Wagner, his daughters and Natalie's daughter along with Stefanie Powers with comments such as "This is how it should have ended". I've never read such insensitive comments. So my insensitive reply to theirs is, if their was any real justice in the world, Dennis Davern would have knocked Wagner on his drunken ass and it would be Natalie in those photos alive and well with her daughters and thriving as a living legend instead of a deceased one. As for Wagner? Pffftttttt! Rotting in some jail in Tijuana would be too good for him.
ReplyDeleteWhat does give a twinge of satisfaction is knowing how Wagner's air head fans despise the current Mrs. Wagner enough to place the photos and comments there for all to see.
I've seen those pics. They are a clear indication of how Wagner's supporters live in the fantasy of Hart to Hart. They are so blinded by Wagner's Jonathan Hart persona that they can't see the truth. They live in such fantasy that they put Wagner and Powers together and totally erase Jill from his life. Of course they can't see that Wagner is responsible for Natalie's death, they see what they want to see.
ReplyDeleteAs for "this is how it should have been", it should have been Natalie with her daughters, guiding them through life, watching them grow into women. She was robbed of that by Robert Wagner, they were robbed of having a mother by their side, they were robbed of her by Robert Wagner.
These are the people who criticize Marti's book, people who see what they want to see rather than seeing the truth, rather than giving reality a nod, they choose to live in the fantasy, they choose to live the lie that he lives every day of his life.
2 Anons above me,
ReplyDeleteI've checked that out on Facebook. I would like to say that although I support all the facts in Marti's book I could never understand some of the negativity toward the RJ fans. I just thought they were his admirers and it would be expected that they would support the belief that he was innocent.
I was wrong and I admit it. You are both right! They are in a fantasy land of characters that man has played. You are so incredibly right when we call them insensitive. I can see very clearly now the frustration many of you have with them. A woman and a Mother was taken away from the world and her children and these heartless people are commenting about the way it should have been? Who is living in a fantasy land now? Who's page is that? Surely RJ Wagner isn't that stupid that he would allow something like that or is he?
If Wagner's fans only knew about some of what Dennis was told by Wagner and Natalie and by some of their friends, some of the conversations Dennis was there to hear and things that others who knew Wagner told Marti in confidence. These things had nothing to do with Natalie's death so Marti kept them to herself. She took the high road. If she was the witch that Wagner's fans make her out to be, if she wrote GNGS for money as Wagner's supporters want everyone to believe, she would have revealed some of the little secrets that were told on The Splendour.
ReplyDeleteAnd dont forget to vist the wagner homepage and log your 'birthday wishes' to him. MIne went something like "HAPPY BIRTHDAY I KNOW YOU MURDERED NATALIE WOOD". I hope he chokes on the cake.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon 4:59, Yes, I know many things (some I've shared with you and a few others I trust) about the "behind closed doors" Wagner.
ReplyDeleteDuring an interview in Hawaii with Wagner, Natalie was asked by Mike Douglas, "is RJ like Jonathan?" Wagner was sitting next to her. She smiled her knowing smile when she answered an honest, "No." Then she even answered that she is not jealous of Stefanie Powers, because someone in the audience asked if she was, someone who obviously does not know how to distinguish between a TV character and a real husband.
When Wagner is asked what character is most like himself, he usually answers "Jonathan Hart." I suppose he wants to see himself as this fictional character because that's who most of his fanbase identify him with--a decent, caring, rich gentleman he once played.
Jonathan Hart is a FAKE character.
Dennis was very close with Wagner and spent over 10 years in his company, 3 of those years on the Hart set. Wagner, in real life was often shallow, insensitive, bigoted, abrasive, drunk, arrogant and often harsh. Other people I've heard from who were in his presence told me stories to substantiate these descriptions.
His Facebook fans would never want a real look at the real person because the most consistent rumors that follow the man exist for a reason. Fans get lost in "fantasy" and although they may say the same thing of Natalie fans, here's the difference: there isn't ONE -- NOT ONE negative rumor or impression of Natalie Wood in existence. NOT ONE BAD THING follows Natalie. No one has "bad anecdotes or experiences" to tell about Natalie. She is remembered as "Yesterday's Angel." What will Wagner be remembered as?
The ONLY negative thing out there about Natalie is what Wagner allowed Lambert and Eyman to create about her, but it didn't work. She didn't "get drunk and fall off a boat after having career demons and flirting with a co-star." She wasn't known for "swishing her tail."
Suzanne Finstad gave us plenty. I could have given us more, but, yes, I took the high road.
Sometimes I wonder why.
Wagner's fans don't want to get it that Jonathan Hart is a character in a TV series. He's an actor who plays different characters.
ReplyDeleteWagner has said that the character that is most like his own personality is Alexander Mundy and in another interview, he said Jonathan Hart was the character most like himself. It's typical of Wagner to give the answer he feels his audience wants to hear rather than tell the truth.
Hey Marti, some of the younger bloggers might wonder who Mike Douglas is? LOL
ReplyDeleteI almost explained who Douglas is, but then I remembered: there's this wonderful thing called "Google" -- lol, but, in all seriousness, when I think about my age now, and how young I actually feel depsite what the calendar says, I realize all the years Natalie missed. To be 43 again (the age she was when she died) seems like actual YOUTH! She was SO YOUNG to be robbed of all those years that have passed. It truly breaks my heart. Natalie did not have to die that night. It all is a result of the argument.
ReplyDeleteYoung people will see: time flys, life is precious, and no one has the right to determine when a person "leaves us" as "he" so oddly puts it.
Yes, he always uses that term saying Natalie "left us", as if it was voluntary. Jerk!
ReplyDeleteI've been reading some of the press releases from the days following Natalie's death. One said that after Wagner identified the body, he went into seclusion in his Beverly Hills home. That's one example of how ill informed the media was. I guess they took it for granted that Wagner would be the person who would identify his wife's body or that's what they were told by Wagner's PR people. I recall him saying that he couldn't do it, that he would never come back from that. What a selfish jerk he is! His thoughts were of himself, about how seeing Natalie would make HIM feel. How the hell could be not want to say goodbye to her but when the cameras were rolling and all of the Hollywood royalty was there to watch, he bent to kiss the casket. That phony son-of-a-bitch! He took her life, that's why he couldn't stomach the thought of seeing her dead.
I remember the very first time I asked Dennis why he identified Natalie rather than her husband taking it on, BEFORE Dennis has started telling me details, and he answered, "Oh, RJ could never have done it. It would've killed him." Dennis had said it with genuine sympathy in his voice for RJ, but it also had seemed a "pat answer" -- as if it had been drummed into Dennis. I truly believe Wagner manipulated Dennis constantly. Think about it. It's one thing that Wagner took Dennis into his home, but to take him to his therapist with him? To give him a job as an actor on Hart to Hart? Dennis was by Wagner's side for an entire year after Natalie's death. Wagner provided him bodyguards. That wasn't to protect Dennis! It was to protect Wagner from anyone getting to Dennis, should Dennis start to "talk" -- how can some people not see this? Some like to say, "Oh, Wagner was being kind to him, and Dennis turned on him anyway when he cut him off. That's total hogwash. Wagner wasn't kind to Dennis. He was manipulating him.
ReplyDelete"Kind", my ass! He kept Dennis under lock and key to keep the press away from him. Again, anyone who saw Wagner's acts as "kindness" is living in fantasy, believing what they choose to believe. He knew the press would be after Dennis. Why on earth would Wagner provide bodyguards for Dennis? Think about it. Who did Dennis Davern need to be guarded from? Wagner was guarding Wagner, protecting himself, his image.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Wagner's friends and lawyers advised him that he could not do this forever which is why it stopped but in those first few months after Natalie's death, Wagner wanted to make sure that Dennis was kept away from the press while Wagner was playing the devastated widower, explaining the presence of a woman in his life a mere 11 weeks later with the "I hate to be alone." BS. Tears in his eyes in interviews. PLEASE! He's so "kind".
"I hate to be alone". Then get a dog. Larry left a vacancy.
ReplyDeleteHe bought another dog but he waited over a year as he was not ready to replace Larry. I guess 11 weeks was too soon to replace his dog.
ReplyDeleteI listened to the Three Wise Girls interview again. I listened last year, but listening again enforces my belief in Dennis. He sounds remarkably credible, even when he asks you to take over Marti. It's more believable than someone with all the rehearsed answers like Wagner. People accuse Dennis of having "learned memory" but there's nothing learned in this interview. It really is good! Better than I remember!
ReplyDeleteWagner is totally rehearsed, he has the words prepared. When he does not, he stutters and stammers and falls all over himself with "um" "ah". His eyes shift but his fans don't see that because they see what they want to see.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why Wagner needed another dog. He already has a groveling,red haired one who will do anything including jumping through hoops for her master.
ReplyDeletewhat some people will do for money!
ReplyDelete