Some people were occasionally intimidated by Natalie Wood, but not because she intimidated them deliberately. She was a strong woman who had learned to protect herself, thus she rarely had a problem voicing her true feelings. She was protective of her family and of her world. She had built her world, alone. She was the person everyone in her world depended upon, for all of her life.
She helped friends, family, and peers, but she had learned how to not be taken advantage of. She acquired friends she loved and trusted. Her name alone was something to cling to and many did, but for those in her circle, they indeed had a protective, caring, and honest friend in Natalie. But maybe they were also a tad envious and intimidated by this vivacious, directed, and steadfast woman who, finally, had come to terms with what was important in life. Natalie loved her family but also loved herself and she valued her lifelong Hollywood career. Is there really anyone who can find fault with that? Natalie was not career-driven to the point she ever neglected her closest loved-ones. But RJ had been intimidating her, making her feel guilty for working away from home.
Natalie, however, could be influenced to a degree, but only from or by someone she respected and was willing to allow influence her. She resented having to explain to RJ that working away from home was nothing more than a job. Natalie allowed Christopher Walken to influence her ideas about work because she liked his ideas. He was an Oscar winning movie actor whose career was on the brink of wonderful things when she and Walken crossed paths at a time she was trying to turn her career in a new direction. Natalie admired Walken and thought she could learn some of the "new tricks in the film business" from him. She listened to his ideas about the screenplay they were working on: Brainstorm. She liked his ideas only because she believed they were good ideas. She wanted the film to work.
Christopher was a bit starstruck, too. Natalie Wood was playing his wife. There were certain names in the business you would jump to work with as an upcoming, rising star, and the name Natalie Wood was one of them. Christopher knew this. But, when a script is poorly executed, problems can and will arise and those problems existed within Brainstorm. It got to the point where the lead actors just wanted to get it over with. Natalie missed her daughters while she was working on Brainstorm in North Carolina, and she wanted to get home.
Daughter Natasha cried and pleaded with Mom to not go on the Thanksgiving Splendour excursion, but it was a weekend in-between finalizing scenes on Brainstorn. Work on Brainstorm was not yet completed and Natalie and Christopher had work to finish at the studio the following week. Natalie was still in working mode. She knew she would be spending the complete month of December with her daughters, catching up, shopping, and doing all the fun holiday things with them.
Natalie had liked working with Walken, was glad to have met him, so keeping Walken as a family friend was not a bad idea in her opinion. She thought RJ would like him as well if only there was time to get to know him. Christopher took his work seriously but was also a personable friend. He liked to joke and laugh and he, too, wouldn't have minded befriending RJ as he had Natalie. He had set no designs on Natalie. Natalie wanted RJ to get to know Christopher, as people in their particular fields of work normally do. Where better than aboard the Splendour to help develop a relationship with this new family friend? THAT was Natalie's purpose in having invited Christopher for a holiday shopping weekend cruise. She wanted RJ to like him, too. Decades later, RJ finally admits that he does.
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OMG, Marti, what an apt decription here! It stands to reason, if Natalie was having an affair she wouldn't have brought Walken along for an intimate cruise on Splendour! She was being an adult, wanting her husband to get to know a colleague she liked! My God, what an ass Wagner is. Yep, decades later he calls Walken a gentleman in his book. How sick is this? How sick!
ReplyDeleteThe night Natalie died she and Wagner were struggling. She suffered defensive wounds, see autopsy. 15 minutes later she's in the water yelling for help. A woman in a boat nearby (Marilyn a stock broker), heard Natalie's cries, "Help me! I am drowning!" Marilyn and her companion turned on their search light saw nothing, and called the coast guard which never came. In the next few days, Marilyn received an anonymous death threat which read, "If you value your life say nothing about what you know." Due to a lifeguard log discovered by the Enquirer (see dailymail.com) it appears Natalie had once again found her husband in flagrante with another man (Walken) in the boat's cabin. She probably went crazy just like she had when at age 22 she'd caught her husband in bed with another man in her family home. (See Finstad autobiography of Natalie). She divorced Wagner because of this indiscretion. You can imagine how upset she was when she once again discovered her husband doing the same thing twice on the night of her death. Their current marriage was on thin ice. Next thing she's overboard struggling for life. With Wagner in no hurry to help replying, "Don't worry, we are coming to get you." But doing nothing to help. He let her die. Butillo, a witness whose statements have been corroborated, says that Walken confided to him that "A sexual indiscretion occurred on the night of Natalie's death." Butillo says he's sorry he waited so long to come forward. Wagner could be found guilty of negligent homicide were he ever tried.
DeleteOf course he likes Walken now. Who wouldn't like someone who backs up your lies and keeps you safe for almost 30 years. Walken is despicable and his behavior makes Natalie look foolish for ever considering him as a friend. I'm sure her instincts about people were probably very astute and hard fought considering her history. It's a shame that Walken made it past her phony meter. Even worse, the one acting job Wagner finally pulls off is of a loving husband. Disgusting.
ReplyDeleteHe likes him, now. He was not so crazy about him a few years ago. They must have played let's make a deal, one will say it, the other will swear to it. Walken probably asked Wagner to be nice to him in his book as opposed to what he told Gavin Lambert about him. Wagner is the ultimate lying hypocrite. He will say whatever it takes to keep his armor polished and shining.
ReplyDeleteI'm skeptical about Wagner and Walken having any agreement between them. I think their natural cowardice and self-preservation just happened to benefit each other. I think there is an unspoken understanding (honor among thieves) that they will continue to cover their butts. Walken is in too deep now. He would have been better off just keeping his mouth shut instead of confirming Wagner's lies. I hope they both go down together. It's only fitting.
ReplyDeleteWalken rarely discussed Natalie's death but when he did, he contradicted himself. In one interview he claimed to be present when Wagner came up from the stateroom to say that Natalie was missing. Of course, we know that's a lie. He was in his stateroom, asleep. He made that statement in another interview and to the police. He needs to make up his mind what he wants to say.
ReplyDeleteWagner was pissed at Walken and it showed in Lambert's book. He accused Walken of having an affair with Natalie, he told Lambert that he did not want Walken at the funeral. There was hostility there, no question about that. By the time Wagner wrote his book, he did a complete turn around concerning Walken. He became a gentleman. The fact is, Wagner NEEDS Walken so he made nice with him.
Walken is all Wagner has. Walken was there. What he says is important. Wagner was there. What HE says is important...whether they lie or tell truth, what they say is crucial because they were there. And Dennis was there. Dennis still believes, if it ever really comes down to it, Walken will be honest. I hope Dennis is right.
ReplyDeleteHe'll lie because he already has lied. He'll never tell the truth as he knows it. He'll say what Wagner's people want him to say. Maybe he will be like Wagner when he discusses Natalie's death in a public arena. Wagner falls all over himself. He does fine in written interviews or in prepared interviews but when he is on his own he trips over his tongue. He is full of "UMs" and "AHs" and hesitation, incomplete sentences.
ReplyDeleteI hope Dennis is right too. Walken has boxed himself in. He will probably lawyer up and have them say he knows nothing. All the things he has said over the years will become "misquoted" or innocent speculation on his part. It's ironic that the career he was trying to protect will now once again be at jeopardy. He should have told the truth to start with. This story has stuck with him despite his best efforts to be free of it. So essentially, the lies were all for nothing. In the beginning he just would have been a bystander to a fatal cruise. Now he's the sleaze bag that wouldn't stand by Natalie.
ReplyDeleteWalken did lawyer up just as soon as he heard the investigation was reopened. dailymail.com.
DeleteWalken has given very odd (and yes, conflicting) answers in interviews. Walken IS odd--period.
ReplyDeleteI, too, feel that Natalie could've done better in choosing to give her friendship to him. I WISH that she had.
I recall one magazine interview, in particular, in which Walken spoke very disrespectfully. He said something to the effect of, "It happens. Someone drinks a little too much and their ass falls off a boat. What are you gonna do?"
Those were not his exact words, but they are close. I was stunned by the disrespect and flippancy. And I was disgusted.
Natalie should've never remarried Wagner, or become friends with Walken. If she was Hollywood hip, you'd think she'd know the score.
Deletebut Wagner called him a gentleman because Walken does not speak about Natalie's death, publicly, if he can avoid and when he does speak of it, he is sympathetic to RJ. It does not matter to RJ what Walken has to say about Natalie as long as Wagner comes out of it smelling like a rose. He makes me sick! He want to make like Prince Valiant and Jonathan Hart but in reality he is more like Bud Corliss.
ReplyDeleteSo many of the things that Wagner has said and written (or allowed to be written) about Natalie since her death are despicable and shameful.
ReplyDeleteIt is ironic that Wagner is a snob, but Natalie was gracious and caring and real. Wagner grew up in a wealthy family, but that means nothing. He has no class, grace, or empathy. His book is a great example of his shortcomings.
However, Natalie possessed all of those things and so much more, yet she was not an elitist. She truly cared about others and gave so much to everyone who was lucky enough to know her.
Natalie was too unsuspecting.
DeleteWagner can only brag about growing up wealthy. Oh, yes, and having a lot of hair when he was younger. He likes to talk about that. What a great trait!
ReplyDeleteHow ironic that he was born into wealth and she was born into poverty yet at age 42 he needed her money to bail himself out of his financial troubles.
ReplyDeleteWhen they were married the second time, it was clear that she ran the show, financially. She had a better head on her shoulders than he did as anyone can see in reading his book. He seemed to have a lot of financial issues whereas she listened to her advisers, made solid decisions, she read all of the contracts, she remembered what she told by her associates. She was more cautious with money while he liked to be the big spender. Obviously she was the brighter of the two, more articulate.
She was too innocent and did not see Wagner for what he is. Or else she chose to ignore it. Hollywood has always been a dirty bed.
DeleteHis financial problems ended when she died.
ReplyDeleteAnd so did Jill St. John's. She wasted no time in swooping in on Natalie's family, did she? Another big injustice to Natalie...
ReplyDeleteYes, I always wonder what kind of a woman goes after a "grieving widower" when he has barely finished burying his wife. (Or did he get Dennis to do that too?!) She also knows that she wasn't one of Natalie's close "childhood friends" and all of the other lies Wagner has told. Did she not read her husband's book? Doesn't she wonder why he feels the need to lie about such simple things? I'm sure she got along with Lana when they were in the James Bond movie. Why the antagonism now? I guess a cushy life makes it easier to rationalize and go along with things. Poor Natalie, how did her life ever lead her to this group of losers?
ReplyDeleteLana and Jill did not get along while making Diamonds. Lana tried but Jill was a B-witch to her. Lana tried to talk to her but Jill snubbed her. Maybe Jill was jealous over the attention Sean paid to Lana?
ReplyDeleteAs for the lies in his book, I'm sure Jill had a hand in most of them. He wrote that book to make money. At that point he was accepting every piece of crap that was offered to him. Since the book, he's been a tad more selective.
I recall him saying that he would never write an auto-biography, that he would keep in all "in his heart". Phony!
I wonder if Jill read your book, Marti. I wonder if Natalie's daughters read it. I also wonder if they wonder why Wagner has said nothing about it publicly. He's probably feeding them the old, "We don't want to give them publicity, if we ignore it, it will go away." The thing I want to know is why the media is protecting this liar.
ReplyDeleteHe is telling his family that he is protecting Natalie with his silence, he fed them a story that places Natalie in an embarrassing position. RJ made up the story. All of the family and friends have bought it. RJ comes out looking like a hero for allowing himself to be blamed while he protects his wife. In all likelihood, his PR people have told the press the crap but nothing specifc, about what a hero he is. Wagner is a con artist.
ReplyDeleteThe Wagner's usually invited the people they were working with on The Splendour. It was not out of the ordinary that Walken was invited but Wagner was jealous of Walken, jealous of Walken's career, that he was taken seriously as an actor in a way that pretty boy Wagner never was. Walken was a REAL actor and Natalie enjoyed working with REAL actors rather than lightweights.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard for me to believe that Natalie's daughters wouldn't take a look at Marti's book. They know "Uncle Dennis" is giving his version of events that night. Even if they choose to believe their father, there still must be a tremendous need to find out why there mother left them so early. I would think curiosity would get the best of them and they would take a look. Surely their friends have seen it and commented on it. There lives can't be that insulated.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that they have a loyalty to their father, however blind it may be, that might keep them from reading the book. He has, in all likelihood, sat them down and told them to ignore it complete with tears in his eyes. But I agree that SOMEONE close to them had to comment on the book. For all we know, they may have had a few conversations about it with their father. Maybe they have asked questions about what they have heard, we don't know but I'm sure they were fed a line of BS by Wagner.
ReplyDeleteI'm also certain that this blog is followed by some of his people along with his fans. GNGS is his worst nightmare, the truth. And with the paperback, even more truth that he probably thought would never be revealed. I wonder what Natalie's daughters will think about what RJ said to Knoll when he was asked why he waited so long to call for help. He trashed their mother but they were not supposed find out about that.
If Natasha and Courtney ever speak out about this, it will be after he dies.
Wagner's people would have to follow this blog. It is in their best interests, especially since the book is going to have another go around. That's why I have previously commented about Marti keeping things close to the vest. It's the smart thing to do. I agree that their father has sold them a line of BS about that night but they are free to think for themselves now. Somewhere in them they must have serious questions. Or even simple ones. Where's Aunt Lana and cousin Evan? Why were they banished from our lives? All of Wagner's stories can't erase their early memories and shared times with these people. There has to be some gnawing questions somewhere. Thus, my feeling that it would be really hard not to take a look at this book no matter what you believe. Yes, I also think some of Wagner's hard core fans follow this blog. I think they have learned to say things in a more subtle way. If they don't Marti will delete them. That's why I answered the post that warned Marti not to venture into Peter R. conspiracy theories. It seemed polite but I just felt like there was a lot of buckshot in the first few sentences. It didn't feel like the regular postings. (I apologize profusely if I am wrong and it was one of the regular posters. Chalk it up to occasional paranoia on this subject)
ReplyDeleteThe book is an eyewitness account. An account given by someone that Natalie's daughters use to be very close to. Childhood memories have a strong pull, and I can't imagine that at some point they would not want to know what Dennis had to say.
ReplyDeleteMy feeling is that those two girls (and Wagner's first daughter) will realize that what was written is the truth. It would seem that that could be overwhelming for them...They will come to the realization that their father was involved in their mother's death.
I feel sorry for them when that happens.
Natasha Gregson Wagner reads every single word written about her Mother.
ReplyDeleteI assure you, this statement is a fact. Whether she believes what is written or not she does not comment on but not a word goes by her concerning her Mother that she has not read.
I don't believe that's true. She was not even aware the one of her mother's biggest hits is not on DVD. If she read every word, if she had any interest in her mother, she'd know that. She may read bits and pieces but I doubt that seeks anything out. She was raised not to read anything that could be controversial. If she was so concerned about her mother, she would have been at the NY Film Festival at which Natalie was honored. She was invited and declined.
ReplyDeleteI learned something else about Natalie, not related to her death, but related to exposing Wagner's "selective memories". Wagner always claimed to have been David Niven's close friend, giving the impression it was he who was closer to David than Natalie was. He would often mention Niven's chalet in Switzerland (which had belonged to Niven's parents when Natalie visited) and RJ visited Niven's chalet several times after Natalie died, primarily to hide out there on anniversaries of Natalie's death. He took Jill with him to Switzerland on the first anniversary of Natalie's death.
ReplyDeleteBut...
Niven was Natalie's friend. She visited Niven's chalet long before RJ did, without RJ. She was friends with Niven and his wife, and when she and Wagner got back together in the 70's it was then that Wagner became closer with Niven. In Wagner's book he would have you believe that he hung with the greats while Natalie was younger and off with the jet-set crowd. It wasn't that way at all. She introduced HIM to the greats in most cases. Wagner gets to tell it however he wants in his older years, but it won't go uncorrected for long, even though most of those "greats" are gone.
After Natalie died of course Niven extended his friendship to the "grieving Wagner" -- Niven totally believed the accident theory.
But in Pieces of My Heart, Wagner sure paints the picture of a longtime friendship with Niven, but in fact, it was Natalie who was first close with Niven, and Niven became a family friend because of Natalie, just as she had tried to do with Walken: befriend a colleague in the business.
I believe Natalie dated David Nivens son, David Niven Jr., in the 60's.
ReplyDeleteYes, she did date Niven's son. Marti is completely right that it was Natalie who introduced Wagner to the greats of Hollywood. She was an accepted part of that older circle and Wagner could only look from the outside until he married Natalie. Wagner and Niven were in the movie, The Pink Panther, together. Might he have cemented their friendship then or do you think Natalie was solely the glue that held them together?
ReplyDeleteAnon at 6:33pm
ReplyDeleteYou are wrong. Just because she states one thing to the press or declines to appear somewhere does not mean she does not read everything written about her Mother. I will not argue this with you as I know for a fact that Natasha Gregson Wagner reads everything written about her Mother. I think you are just upset because neither daughter has spoken out against RJ and it is clouding your logic and sense of reasoning.
I am not talking about how she should react or how she she feel. Those opinions I will keep to myself. I am only stating something I know for a fact.
Of course you do. You know exactly what Natasha does at every moment. I think, perhaps, you are the one with the clouded judgment. You are stating an opinion as fact. The fact is you, like the rest of us, have no idea what Natasha reads or does not read.
ReplyDeleteI would not expect them speak out against their father. No child, no matter what age, wants to believe that their father murdered their mother. Natalie's daughters have been fed a story since they were kids, their daddy told them his version of the "truth", complete with the tears in his eyes and they bought it because it's easier for them to believe his BS than it is to believe the truth. He told them how he will protect their mother and they bought it when in reality the only person he has protected is himself.
ReplyDeleteWas anyone else on this board aware of the fact that Christopher Walken and Robert Wagner starred together in a film recently? It's called LIFE'S A BEACH (though it was originally titled CLUB JUNGLE JUICE). It was acutally made a few years ago but was never released in theaters. It's suppose to be coming out on dvd sometime this year. I had heard that Christopher Walken also served as a producer but I'm not sure if that is true. Here is the IMDB link...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285252/
Does anyone else find this a little odd?
See what I mean about posts that just don't sound like the rest of us? The Natasha Gregson Wagner defense sounds very testy to me. We all speak with measured respect to each other. The majority of us use the term Wagner istead of the more friendly RJ. His fans could easily drop a tasty tidbit for the rest of us and then sit back and watch the feeding frenzy of comments. Sort of a way to control the board since they can't actively participate. I'm probably in grassy knoll territory here but my radar for people is usually pretty accurate. However, because we do strive to be respectful here as opposed to other forums, I will apologize again if I am wrong.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Yes, I am aware that Marti used RJ in her above post. She rarely refers to him in that way.
ReplyDeleteYou are NOT wrong. This type of poster is so transparent. This is the only game in town where GNGS is discussed in peace, without the TMZ tone that has taken place elsewhere. How frustrating in must be for the those who are taken in by Wagner's "nice guy", "he loved her so much" demeanor, not to be able to troll this blog as they have trolled all of the other Natalie-Wagner sites, especially the people who are into it to stir up trouble. People like this poster have no respect for Natalie and could give a damn how she died. Let's not give them the audience and the attention that they crave.
ReplyDeleteYes, Life's A Beach, another Wagner classic.
ReplyDeleteIt possible that they sat and chatted about that horrible night and it's possible that there paths never crossed. Having never seen this film I don't know if they had scenes together.
There is no question that these two men, and I use the term loosely, agreed to agree before Wagner wrote is book. Let's face it, they both know that they both lied to the authorities. Wagner needs Walken and he will kiss his butt to achieve those means.
I am very sorry if I have offended anyone by posting a fact concerning Natasha Gregson Wagner. It was not my intention to do this. I am not stating an opinion, I am stating a fact which I know for certain.
ReplyDeletePerhaps people are taking my posts the wrong way. I am not defending Natasha. I was only making an attempt to set the record straight the same that Marti Rulli has done.
That is all. No more and no less. If you choose to believe I was trying to cause problems as others have done, you are mistaken.
I have nothing further to add except the fact that Natasha Gregson Wagner reads everything concerning her Mother. Whether you choose to believe that or not is entirely your opinion.
I have mixed feelings about your post. My radar still vibrates RJ fan. I have never seen any posts that arouse my suspicions except for yours and the one about Peter R. HOWEVER, no one has appointed me judge here and I must take you at your word. I am deeply sorry if I am reading things into your post that are not there. Please accept my apology. No one here wants people to have to censor what they really think to appease other people. I look forward to your future postings and will try to keep my opinions in check. I respect the civil attitude that permeates this blog and look forward to more of the same.
ReplyDeleteAnd now the poster is being as sweet as pie, the earlier rudeness and sarcasm is gone. This is typical but we shall grin and bare it and gone on.
ReplyDeleteAs for Natasha, she has said many times that she does not think of her mother in terms of being a movie star or a celebrity of any kind. She has said that she is not into her mother's career. The Natalie that she remembers is Natalie, the mom. With that, I seriously doubt that she reads everything that is written about her mother as most of it is gossip or career related. "Everything", I don't believe that for a moment.
I would like to add to my comment above. On reflection, what difference would it make if you did turn out to be an "RJ" fan? Nowhere on this blog is it posted that his fans are not allowed to participate. The only request is that they be respectful. I will comment if I feel someone is being snarky and has a clear agenda to make us see the error of our beliefs about this case. I do not need to comment about someone's motives in making certain posts. That is a slippery slope that will only lead to hurt feelings, or worse, antagonism. Once again, I offer my apology no matter which side of the fence you sit on.
ReplyDeleteThis is Marti's blog for Marti's book. Wagner fans have demeaned and degraded Marti and Dennis. This is not the place for Wagner fans to gather to sing his praises, to defend him. If they want to travel that road, this is not the place to do it. We are free to say what we please. Having Wagner's fans waving his flag might jeopardize that freedom. Some may want to say something but will not because there will be a Wagner flag waving ceremony to follow.
ReplyDeleteWould Marti be welcome to praise her book on a Robert Wagner blog or fan site? I don't think so.
And I know two wrongs don't make a right but all this will do is cause friction and then posting on the blog will cease, which is EXACTLY what Wagners' supporters would like to happen.
Don't misunderstand what I said. I am not rolling out the carpet for Wagner fans. I also believe that this is not the place for them. However, if they have a legitimate question or comment I don't think Marti is going to shoot them down. She speaks of people in this case that we think are despicable, yet she manages to take the high road and mostly just reports the facts. No one will allow Wagner fans to hijack this blog. We will always speak freely. Any demeaning comments about Marti or Dennis will always be met with a vigorous defense. Relax, Wagner fans know they will not be successful here. I merely meant that if they show up and they are civil, I will not go witch hunting about if they are one of us or one of them. Life is too short to spend it mudwrestling with these people.
ReplyDeleteI have no problem answering anyone's questions but it seems no matter how many times you answer some questions for some people there remains a certain few refusing to accept the answers. I'm way past dealing with excuses and theories in relation to Natalie's death. I know there was a terrible fight on the back deck of Splendour at the EXACT time Natalie "left the Splendour" -- there was NO investigation into the FACT of this matter, and the mission here is to deal with these and other facts, and to try to get the authorities to reverse their grave mistake in the handling of the Natalie case. When Wagner defenders want to come along and talk about things like how it's "more likely than not that Natalie acquired her bruises when in the ocean" well, they can do that elsewhere where it wouldn't be debatable amongst them. Here, we understand it's more likely, in VIEW OF THE FACTS, that most of those bruises were acquired aboard Splendour when things were flying around and hitting the walls in the master stateroom. Here, we not only know the facts, we ACCEPT them, and try to put them into order with logical thinking. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, well...
ReplyDeleteThis blog is more for those willing to believe the witnesses. No one has any reason to lie in the Wood case except for two celebrities.
For those that can't or won't accept facts, there are plenty of places online to mull over theories.
So, it's not that Wagner fans are not welcome here, it's just that they serve no real purpose here. There's a purpose for this blog.... the case isn't reopened yet. Until it is, I'll keep posting facts that lend toward good reason to get it reopened. Also, I appreciate all of you who care about Natalie and the mission for truth about her mystery death and I thank you for all of your input. If we sometimes talk about Natalie's life, well that's fine. She deserves to still be talked about.
I hope Natasha has read GNGS and I hope she reads the paperback.
ReplyDeleteA terrible fight at the exact time Ms Wood went missing. How that statement doesn't reopen the investigation...I don't understand?
ReplyDeleteWagner had never confirmed or denied the fight on the back deck. The only person who spoke of the fight is Dennis. IMO, the fact that Wagner lied about several important details should bring on another look at this case.
ReplyDeleteDennis was a trusted employee. He was called on to babysit the Wagner's children. I can't think of any reason why Dennis Davern would make up a story about Mr Wagner and Ms Wood fighting, and take 30 years to tell it. Of course Mr Wagner is not going to mention that. That is the whole point of the book...To let people know that Mr Wagner was involved in a terrible fight with Ms Wood, and that that fight continued right up until the moment Ms Wood went missing. That is the crux of Mr Davern's story.
ReplyDeleteMr Davern was motivated to tell his story in order to right a wrong. In my opinion, he dosen't want to leave this earth without righting that wrong.
There seemed to be a conspiracy to discredit Dennis from day one. Out of the 3 man on the boat, the only one Rasure trashes is Dennis. Either Rasure was totally starstruck or he HAD to make Dennis look bad so that no one would find him credible. Dennis knew what happened that night and no on involved wants that to be told and that includes the police, also. Rasure goes to the point of making up a stupid story, the learning to swim story, because he is afraid that the truth will be exposed, the truth about Natalie's death and the truth about "the investigation".
ReplyDeleteOf course Natasha and Courtney read everything about their mother it's their mother!!!!! Natasha and Courtney know exactly what happened that night, good or bad they know because RJ told them, they dealt with it good or bad and moved on because that is what people do. If there were secrets or doubts looming none of them woulb be living the healthy lifestyle they have been living for years now. Courtney was to young at the time Natasha was old enough to understand that both her parents had huge egos rightfully so, they worked hard and played hard, they drank too much, they were jealous of each other, and in different ways they were both mentally unstable. When you combine all of this on a weekend cruise with heavy drinking, mild drugs and inject a young handsome actor into the mix it was a recipe for disaster on any level Hollywood stars or not.
ReplyDeleteRJ told them what RJ wanted them to know, his version of what happened that night leaving out, any parts that might make them wonder about their Daddy. He told them a little made up little secret to make himself look good which is all he truly cares about.
ReplyDelete"mentally unstable" Natalie was not "mentally unstable".
Who was a young, handsome actor? Walken was not all that young nor was he all that handsome but he was what Wagner always wanted to be, an actor who was praised for his outstanding work.
Natalie's daughters know what Daddy wants them to know. In all likelihood he whispered the same story to all of their friends with the same fake tears in his eyes. He's a pathetic liar.
If anyone fits into the mode of being mentally ill, it's Wagner. Natalie has had her emotional problems. She was very open and honest about it. She always tried to improve herself, to help herself. But she was not "mentally ill". She never hung around someone's house with a gun intending to kill them, she never stood at window threatening to jump out, she never took anyone's life in a drunken rage. The shoe does not fit for Natalie but it's a closer fit for Wagner.
ReplyDeleteWe may find out even more after Wagner dies. He protects himself. For that matter, Natalie protected him during the years they were divorced. In his book one can see that he is a very narcissistic man and no matter how many psychiatrists he has seen over the years, that has never changed and it was present in him the night he took Natalie's life.
"Who was a young, handsome actor? Walken was not all that young nor was he all that handsome but he was what Wagner always wanted to be, an actor who was praised for his outstanding work."
ReplyDeleteI sgree that Christopher Walken wasn't exactly young at the time of Wood's death but I completely disagree about him not being handsome. He was pretty hot back then. I've been a huge fan of his since I was a kid so it saddens me to think that he may have been withholding important information about this case for all these years. If he does know something I can only hope that he will come forward eventually and tell the truth.
He was never what one would classify as "handsome", especially is the pretty boy way that Wagner was handsome but he was sexy back in the day. There was something about him. He has not aged well at all.
ReplyDeleteI think Walken knows what he saw or heard. He lied to the police, he lied to the press. I don't see him, all of a sudden, telling the truth, especially since he and Wagner agreed to agree. It seems to me that he has always wanted to distance himself from this. I don't see him raising his hand to tell the truth, ever. And to complicate matters even further, there is the truth as he knows it and there is Robert Wagner's "truth".
I would like to know what, if anything, went on between Wagner and Walken while Natalie and Dennis were at The Pavilion Lodge.
Wagner invited Donna Mills for a weekend cruise on The Splendour. She was a young, gorgeous blond who hung out in bikinis and sexy lingerie for the entire weekend. Natalie did not flip out and start breaking wine bottles. Wagner survived that weekend. Perhaps Wagner was the one who had the deepest issues with insecurity and jealousy and possessiveness but that goes with the narcissism.
ReplyDelete"I would like to know what, if anything, went on between Wagner and Walken while Natalie and Dennis were at The Pavilion Lodge."
ReplyDeleteYou've brought up an excellent point here! If you were Christopher Walken in that situation, wouldn't you feel uncomfortable being left alone with Robert Wagner? They may have some sort of arrangement now but it's quite clear that Wagner was very jealous and distrustful of Walken that weekend.
It's possible that Walken never left his stateroom and that Wagner sat and drank and pouted in his stateroom all night long but what about the next morning? It had to have been uncomfortable for Walken which is why Natalie went back to the boat. Wagner was probably very cocky as he was on his own turf.
ReplyDeleteFor years there were rumors that Natalie found Wagner and Walken in a sexual situation and that is what led to her death. I know people who still believe that in spite of GNGS.
A lot of people feel the way Anon 10:03 AM feels. Even Suzanne Finstad wrote that alcohol fueled the tension of the entire fateful weekend, and she blames the alcohol. Many people blame the alcohol, and that's part of the problem. There was always plenty of alcohol flowing aboard Splendour cruises. Hardly anyone ever abused it. There was the fishing trip where Frank Westmore tried to punch Greg, and there were a few seasickness stories, but overall, these people were experienced drinkers and no one ever ended up dead or even hurt because of alcohol.
ReplyDeleteNatalie's blood alcohol level was .14, slightly over the legal limit for driving at that time. Even Coroner Noguchi said that meant several glasses of wine over the course of several hours. Natalie wasn't driving. It is not illegal to have a blood count level of .14, and that percentage certainly does not render someone grossly drunk by any stretch of the imagination or opinion. Natalie may have had a couple more glasses of wine than usual and that's the extent of it. She tried to maintain a pleasant atmosphere around her and it didn't work.
It didn't work because Wagner was hellbent on destroying the chance of having a pleasant weekend aboard the yacht. It was so threatened by having Walken on board that he lost control of his better senses. Wagner, had they taken HIS blood alcohol level for proof, was the cruise member who was fueled by alcohol, not Natalie. These are the facts. There was nothing embarrassing that Natalie did that night or the night before. She wanted a pleasant weekend, tried to keep it pleasant, but it is Robert Wagner who turned into a maniac, BOTH Friday night and Saturday night. On Saturday night, Natalie ended up in the ocean and drowned because of Robert Wagner's demeanor and actions, and for no other reason.
Alcohol has become the scapegoat for an enraged, narcissitic man who wasn't mature enough to control himself and his egocentric jealousies and pompous self-worth. How DARE Natalie have expected him to befriend her new Oscar-winning co-star? That was Wagner's attitude and that is what went wrong the night of Nov. 28, 1981.
Whoever is saying that Wagner has told his daughters the complete story has no way of knowing that unless it is Wagner or one of those daughters posting such anonymous claims.
Dennis Davern was THERE the night Natalie died and he lived with Wagner for a year after her death. The one thing Dennis knows is that Wagner had intended to NEVER talk about the night Natalie died. I know, FIRSTHAND, that he makes his scheduled calls to this day to Natalie's sister, Olga, to gauge Olga's knowledge of the night her sister died. He tells Olga to read nothing and believe nothing. It's logical to believe he has always told his daughters and friends the same thing. That he is protecting Natalie from anything is pure hogwash and sounds like a fan's fantasy. Dennis was THERE and knows there was nothing to protect Natalie from with the exception of protecting her from her enraged husband.
The family member Wagner couldn't control is Lana, so he set out on a mission to destroy Lana's reputation. Only his die-hard fans buy his lies.
I could go deeper here, but as I posted before, I'm way past all of this nonsense and will not allow things to stir up at THIS BLOG. This blog is for support in getting the Natalie Wood case reopened because it's a case that deserves to be investigated, as it was not properly investigated when it should have been.
That is an amazing question. Why did none of us think about it before? Natalie leaving the boat clearly showed Walken that there was an option to staying on board. Why on earth would he not have left? Yes, it would be an awkward situation to broach, but surely it would be preferable to staying in such a tension filled atmosphere. Don't you think Wagner would have been thrilled to see him go?
ReplyDeleteYikes, one day later and I'm already breaking my vow not to guess if someone is a Wagner fan or not. This board has been quiet for a long time. This is now the third questionable post in a very short time. Marti has rightfully called you out. I said I would only comment if there was a clear agenda, and there is. This is not the blog for you. Yes, some people responded to you but eventually posters will get a real feel for what is authentic and what is meant to divide and agitate. It would be best to move on.
ReplyDeleteApparently, Walken stayed in his cabin on Friday night, too. Natalie was back aboard Splendour before Walken got up on Saturday morning, and Dennis says Walken acted like he didn't even know that Natalie and Dennis hadn't spent the night on board. It appears that Walken slept through the trouble Friday night AND Saturday night. Dennis asked Walken to get involved Fri. night and Walken advised Dennis to stay out of it and to go to bed, too. Natalie didn't leave until about a half hour after Dennis had gone to Walken. Walken has even said that when he woke up, the boat was anchored in a different location (maybe only a few hundred yards) from where it had been the night before. Maybe Wagner did move the boat a little and re-anchored and then went to bed. Maybe he was hoping Natalie wouldn't return.... but she did, and then he still refused to end the cruise. Walken, for as much as it annoys me he won't speak-up, was really a boat guest who had little to do with all that happneed between a husband and wife. It was an uncomfortable weekend but had promising moments, too. No one EVER expected the kind of results Sunday morning brought.
ReplyDeleteWalken's position is understandable. He woke up to a nightmare that no one deserved. Here's my problem. Why not just stay quiet like his original intention? Granted, he is always asked about it in interviews, but I'm sure "no comment" is in his vocabulary. Instead, he backs up some of Wagner's versions and speculations. That makes him a viable part of why justice for Natalie is taking so long. He can't have it both ways. Is he a victim or an enabler?
ReplyDeleteI think Walken went along with whatever came of the story (providing he not accused of anything) to keep the peace for the Wagner family. It wasn't the right thing to do, but Davern did it too. After it worked on Davern and he saw that Wagner could care less about him, he started to talk. Walken could've asked to cancel the cruise but maybe he felt uncomfortable with any solution that came to mind while the cruise was happening. There was a battle of stubborness between a married couple and the husband took it to a limit a sane person would never do. Walken is an innocent boat guest, but a guilty witness of truth.
ReplyDeleteI like your last sentence. Nicely put. It still doesn't answer my question though. If Wagner "could care less about him" so he started talking, why back up the lies? Keeping your mouth shut is the smartest move. He knows things were out of control on that cruise. He must have his own suspicions, in which case, burying the truth under Wagner's lies makes no sense to me. Again, if you won't tell the truth at least have the decency to shut-up.
ReplyDeleteI really don't think he knew what to say. Wagner was, at the very least, not being forthcoming with the truth. It took Wagner 20 years to confirm the breaking of the bottle, to confirm that he was angry, to confirm that there was an argument. when the argument come to light in days following Natalie's death, Walken's words were "I didn't know the coroner was on the boat." He was referring to Noguchi making the revelation during the press conference. Days before he told the police that it was a great cruise. At that point I don't think he wanted to go there. In those 20 years Walken never spoke of the argument or the bottle incident. what his silence tells me is that he does not want to be bothered by it. I don't think he cares as long as he is not accused of anything, so he'll do whatever Wagner asks as long as he is kept clean and neat. I don't think Walken gives a damn.
ReplyDeleteHe missed the mark on being clean and neat a long time ago. He will forever be associated with this case and not in a flattering way. I'll bet the majority of people think he knows more than he is telling. I'm sure he doesn't want to be bothered by it, but he has been anything but silent in later years. Marianne's post, quoting him about falling off a boat, is an example of saying something harmful and setting the case back for no apparent reason. I guess his sensitive, artistic side wasn't on display that day. For the love of God, tell the truth or shut the hell up.
ReplyDeleteYes, Martie. Outside of the bottle smashing incident, I don't think Walken knows much of anything about what happened that fateful night. I think he believes (or convinced himself to believe) that Natalie's death was an accident. He probably thought Wagner's story about Natalie and the dinghy was true because of the fighting that was going on.
ReplyDeleteIf he has read Dennis' account of that night he must realize that Wagner's story was a complete fabrication.
I believe that story (in Finstad's book) of Natalie finding Wagner in a compromising position with another man. I think that is why Natalie never worried about him with other women. However, I think it made Wagner very unstable when it came to Natalie and other men.
Did Walken really do all that sleeping while all of this was going on? I wonder?
ReplyDeleteWalken heard everything, he knows exactly what happened each night. The Splendour is a confining space measuring about 60 foot long by about 10-12 foot wide. The master stateroom is not as big as one would think, I would say by looking at photos it's about 10 by 10 or 10 by 12, the stateroom, galley, salon and guest rooms are all confined to one area, it would be impossible not to hear an arguement. If Dennis was blasting the music like he said he was it would have to wake Walken up in wonder of what was going on. IMO Walken and Wagner will always to the end back each other which means it's 2 who were there against one that was there. It's a no win situation any way you look at it. IMO GNGS and this blog is about the only justice Natalie Wood will ever get..................
ReplyDeleteWalken's cabin was forward and the Wagner stateroom at the stern, right off the back deck. Between the Wagner stateroom and Walken's cabin was the main salon and the galley, and underneath the salon and galley was the engine room, with a generator running. Dennis says that the door on Walken's cabin was a snug fit...you really had to push the door to open it, and that's about the only way sound would enter that cabin.
ReplyDeleteWalken may have heard yelling while the argument transpired in the stateroom, but he probably WOULD HAVE expected to hear arguing after such an episode as the bottle-smashing. It stands to reason that Walken would NOT have been lying there and thinking, "They're arguing, I better get up and try to help fix things before Natalie ends up in the ocean."
Even when Dennis knocked on the stateroom door, he wasn't thinking, "I better knock before Natalie ends up dead." When Dennis was asked to go away, he figured he should let the argument play out. Natalie was mad enough to argue with her husband after something like the bottle smashing. So, whoever heard anything was NOT thinking that this fight would be the death of Natalie. When the argument ended up on the back deck, Dennis got concerned that others may hear them, so he put on music to muffle the horrible words, not so he wouldn't be able to hear having to save Natalie....
Between the back deck and Walken's cabin was the Wagner stateroom, the main salon, the galley, and another cabin. Walken had been drinking all day, had smoked pot, and was probably anxious to get to sleep and wake up to a better day ahead. It's possible he heard some of the yelling and it's also possible that he didn't. Only he knows. No one can say for certain that he heard everything. SPlendour was a sturdy boat with the generator right near Walken's "tight" cabin.
SOmetimes I tend to believe he did hear something because of some of the comments he has made, such as, he said in one interview he heard the captain say the dinghy's gone. He sometimes speaks like he was aware of what was going on after Natalie was no longer on the yacht. So, maybe Walken did hear a few things, but I would understand if he hadn't been able to. When Dennis checked in on Walken as soon as he learned Natalie was missing, Walken appeared to be in a REAL passed-out kind of sleep.
Again, this issue is something we could only learn from the celebrity himself, and we all know that celebs rarely talk about things that put them in a questionable position.
It's possible that he heard ONLY the music. He seemed to have been a person who did not want to get involved in anyone's marital issues. He may have heard loud voices but he may have chosen not to listen to those loud voices. I wonder if it occurred to him that the loud voices he heard had anything to do with Natalie's death.
ReplyDeleteWalken contradicted himself on a few occasions. In one interview he was asleep when Natalie went missing, in another he was there when RJ came to the salon to say that Natalie was gone. That's an outright lie because RJ NEVER went to the salon to say that Natalie was gone. When one lies, one tends to forget what one said in the past. Robert Wagner can vouch for that.
ReplyDeleteNot only was Walken drinking and smoking pot, he was taking motion sickness medication...Probably meclizine. I think he would have been asleep the moment his head hit the pillow. The combination of those three things would have made Walken sleepy just standing around.
ReplyDeleteI knew a couple that use to fight all the time. They fought loudly. Their friends never got involved. It was the way they realted to each other.
There was no reason for Walken to think that someone would end up dead in the morning. I doubt that thought would have entered his mind.
What I am saying is that if he heard the yelling, did he wonder if that yelling had anything to do with Natalie's death, when he found out that she was dead. I didn't mean to infer that he wondered if she was going to murdered. That would be ridiculous. I've read of Wagner's fans criticizing Dennis for not taking action while Natalie and her husband were fighting, like he would have thought for a moment that as a result of that fight, Natalie was going to die.
ReplyDeleteI think we can all agree that no one could have anticipated the horrible events that took place that night. I don't really care if Walken heard anything or not. My issue with him is his participation in muddying the waters and making it tougher to sift fact from fiction. Of that, he will always be accountable. Just a quick sidebar. I'm glad Marti told us about Wagner's calls to Olga to "guage" her knowledge about Natalie's death. It means he has been looking over his shoulder for 30 years of his "charmed life". Keep looking "RJ", justice is gaining on you.
ReplyDeleteI'm just catching up here after not seeing this thread for several days. It is just striking that Wagner has always claimed to not want to say anything for the purpose of protecting Natalie (and their daughters). He said he promised their lawyer this, and he is just keeping his word (because he is so very honorable!).
ReplyDeleteAlso, in interviews he said that he didn't want to talk about Finstad's book because "people can say whatever they want about someone, you know, after they're gone, and there's nothing anyone can do about it."
Yes, that's right--and it's exactly what Wagner has done re: Natalie! He started making offensive comments about her within HOURS of her leaving the boat, and he has done so throughout the years. "Natalie had her career demons." (As if wanting to work in films again was horrible!). "I thought that, at the least, Natalie was being emotionally unfaithful" (with Walken). "We figured she was out boat-hopping and screwing around because that's the type of person she was."
Yes, Wagner is right--people can say anything they want about someone, including a deceased wife, and there's nothing to stop them from doing that.
But we can't be stopped from recognizing foul deeds and a TON of lies and wanting to do something about THOSE things.
In the post immediately above, I should've put "protecting Natalie" in quotation marks because I DON'T believe that is why Wagner has refused to comment on her death and has persuaded others not to question it.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to make that clear. I forgot to use those marks another time, and my post was misunderstood!
And yes, Wagner has spent a ton of energy over 29 years trying to cover his tracks. He persuaded poor Olga--that must be so very difficult for Lana. Olga just won't discuss it with her.
Walken couldn't have anticipated what might happen, but I remain angry at him for the way that he's spoken about this tragedy--like I said, it was so disrespectful. He didn't have to say it that way. "Your ass falls off a boat...who knows?" This infuriated me.
Marianne, Walken said that in a Face Magazine interview in Feb. 1985. He said, "Everything that is known about what happened has been published. I don't know what happened. Falling on your ass in the water...I don't know. My silence about it has simply been the silence of ignorance.
ReplyDeleteIn the same article he said..."There was a sort of cold drizzle. We were partying, there's no question about it, but very conservatively. Too much to drink. Who knows? In fact, I was asleep when it all happened. The fact is when someone dies it's a very serious thing. No matter who dies, death gets your attention. You can pass out all you like. You can party. You can do all kinds of things...just don't die."
Yes, it's an extremely curt and elusive way of explaining what he knew of Natalie's death.
I think all three men have their individual levels of guilt to bear. It was made clear in Marti's book that Davern lives with guilt. Not to defend Wagner, but I think when he realized the extent of his behavior, and had to tell those girls their mother was dead, he felt the guilt he would have to live with forever, but Walken, sounds like he feels guilty about none of it. Not that he should, but to a degree, he played his part. The most innocent of all is Davern, the only one to tell the truth but is treated like the alcohol, another scapegoat.
ReplyDeleteConsidering his past actions and comments, I'm not inclined to believe that Wagner lives with guilt. Fear of exposure? Absolutely. The odious task of telling the girls about their mother, was a scene I'm sure he wasn't considering in his rage. Their grief is what he lives with. Perhaps a small price to pay for his narcisstic belief that Natalie was in the wrong. I think he can rationalize anything and that leaves no room for grief or the other emotions the rest of us suffer from.
ReplyDeleteI agree with anonymous 7:18. I don't see that he is living with the guilt over Natalie's death. I think he has done just fine. I think his greatest toward Natalie is anger. He tempered it in his book because he was looking for the sympathy of the reader but in Gavin Lambert's book where the agenda was to make his armor shine, he was clearly angry at Natalie. There were bits and pieces of it in his book, the emotionally unfaithful bit which he got from Lambert's book, those were Lambert's words. Wagner used then as they sounded much better that what he said in Lambert's book which was that he felt his wife was having an affair. I think he has convinced himself that what happened was Natalie's fault.
ReplyDeleteI would say that by the time he arrived home to tell his kids, that's when it really hit. According to his book the kids saw it on TV---how sad----but he was already planning how he was going to handle it, what he might add to it and that he would not talk about it. My question is why? why would he not talk about it? I'll tell you why, because anything he would have said would have been a lie. They say it was grief that kept him silent. Men who are suffering from grief are not going on vacations with their girlfriends that they began seeing 11 weeks after their wife dies. Robert Wagner has been manipulating this since it happened.
He was not going to attend the funeral but his lawyers and PR advised him to, how selfish.
I meant small price in his mind. Certainly, not to us. I can't even imagine how those poor girls have suffered. Now Wagner is the star in that house. He answers to no one and he got all of the money to boot. Cold to say? Yes, and I feel guilty about it. But, as long as his thought processes are filtered through what's best for him, I remain unconvinced of his guilt.
ReplyDeleteI'm the one who said he might suffer guilt, but after reading the few posts above, I agree with all of you. I remembered in Lambert's book when he said Natalie was known for swishing her tail. How degrading and disgusting. No widower with guilt would have allowed such a statement. I eat my words. He's a gross human being. (LOL, does that sound like one extreme to the other? It's not, I maybe needed to think through my original post. Thanks for the reminders of how insensitive he actually was.)
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, he went way past insensitive. I can forgive insensitive. My criticisms have been harsh because I can not get past the defining image of this case. Wagner sitting with a drink in his hand and waiting for his wife to die. Maybe even hearing her pleas for help. It makes my stomach queasy every time I think about it. That's why I abandon my normally compassionate nature and strip him of human emotions. I'm sorry. In my world, only a monster would have been capable of that.
ReplyDeleteHi, Marti:
ReplyDeleteThanks for finding that article with Walken's words. I knew he had used the term "falling on your ass" or "your ass falls off" or something like that. Whatever way he put it, it was disrespectful and callous. And like Wagner's, his words don't make sense at all.
I'd like to see Wagner on Nancy Grace's new show, 'Swift Justice', (think that's the name of it)..I'd like to see her get a hold of him, she would reduce him to rubble in a heartbeat.
ReplyDeleteSeveral comments that Walken himself has made over the years proves he was aware of what was going on, to some extent, after retreating to his cabin.
ReplyDeleteHis was in a cabin, tight though it may have been, but not a tomb.
He may have been sleeping at some point, but not in a state of medically induced unconsciousness.
I think that Dennis is sadly wrong in thinking that Walken will come forward.
NO, I do not believe for one minute that either Dennis or Walken thought that Natalie would die during the course of that night, NO.
But the situation had escalated, turned violent, with Wagner smashing the wine bottle.
Add to that the 'almighty row' that was going on and anyone should have kept an eye and ear open, for their own sake if for nothing and no one else. That would only have been human nature.
Hopefully, with Dennis' eyewitness account of what he heard and saw and experienced during that weekend and with Marti's investigation (There is no other word for it. She is doing the death investigation that the Calif. Sherriffs dept. should have done without the resources of the state of Calif. or the manpower) Wagner will be made to answer for the part he played in Natalie's death.
Marianne,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the information (which I used) about Deane Dana. I was able to catch the production in time to correct the spelling of his name. Odd thing, it was from the LA Times that I got his name ... they had it wrong and he was on the LA County Supervisory Board! We're moving forward now.
Hi, Marti:
ReplyDeleteGlad you were able to catch it in time. Yes, the Times should've gotten it right!
The more I think about it, the more it makes me shiver. Deane Dana (and probably other politicans) had something to do with covering up Natalie's death. Dr. Noguchi's boss, the head of the Department of the Coroner, was DIRECTLY under the Board of Supervisors. Coincidence? I don't think so.
WHO else was involved in this that we don't know about?!
Oops, I misspelled "politicians" above!
ReplyDeleteMarti, I was wondering if you could find out from Roger Smith if any other politicians or people with sway were involved, as far as he can recall. I wouldn't doubt that this reaches even further.
Smoking pot, drinking alcohol and taking meclizine (for 2 days)...I'm almost certain Walken would have been fast asleep.
ReplyDeletehe smoked one joint, drank less than RJ. Maybe the seasickness pill made him tired.
ReplyDeleteI think he would've been afraid, too. That might've worked either way...quick to get to sleep, or laying there shaking for a while.
ReplyDeleteWalken is not the bad guy. He was a man who found himself in the middle of a tragedy. He had nothing to do with that tragedy. He probably felt a lot of guilt that maybe his presence brought on their fighting--which led to Ms Wood's death. I think he believed Wagner's story. He didn't know what Dennis saw. None of us did until fairly recently.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how I would act if I carried around guilt like that.
Dennis said he appeared to be sleeping. He probably was. There is no reason to think otherwise.
Walken's reaction to the bottle smashing suggests he was unaware of the tension that had been building. He reacted passively. I think he was hoping everything would be better in the morning...After the alcohol wore off.
Kevin, that's pretty much how I feel about it. When Walken made cavalier or insensitive comments throughout the years, he obvisouly still hadn't reconciled with how grave a situation Natalie's death truly is. With his comment about "falling on your ass drunk" -- at that time he was probably partially blaming Natalie: when he said he slept through it all, he was probably blaming Wagner at those times, because he really doesn't know WHO to blame and probably wants there to be NO blame. It's easier for him to go with "tragic accident" in every which way. Walken has yet judged how or when to react accordingly when probed, just as Dennis needed probing and pushing to finally realize how to handle it all accordingly.
ReplyDeleteEven Roger Smith should've been more vocal in my opinion, but self-preservation takes over at certain points: Roger's family had already suffered the repercussions of HIS facts. So, he quietly took a writing course and wrote his story for whoever might be interested "down the road."
Down the road.
I think we all know what that means. It seems for some reason, everyone concerned is waiting for when it will be okay to openly talk truth about Natalie's death without repercussions. It's not a FAIR wait.
We all made mistakes on how to handle the facts, for some bizarre reason in deference to someone who doesn't deserve it. We all rationalize that we "didn't want to hurt the girls" or "bring on more personal trouble" as part of it, too, which is TRUE, but justice is justice and it's NATALIE who never received it.
Believe me, Dennis would've forgotten so many important details and would've drank the confusion away from his mind had he not been pushed. He would've taken what he knows (in detail) to his grave. We would've been left with the Vanity Fair article, because that's when Dennis first decided to tell Sam Kashner about the fight after the bottle smashing, and that was to be it... Dennis was prepared to move on with his own life after that article, and people could take it or leave it with those final FACTS in Vanity Fair.
That wasn't enough for me, and I helped to convince Dennis that it shouldn't be enough for Natalie or for himself. Because, deep down, Dennis felt the same way I do and he had no qualms in pushing for true justice for Natalie. I didn't either.
Too bad there isn't someone working on Walken. Sometimes people just need a little probing to recognize their own basic sense of what's right and wrong. The focus should be on Natalie, and no one else. It took Dennis over 20 years to feel completely guilt-free about putting Natalie first. Me? I've put Natalie first from the moment I heard about her death. But, I was much more free to do so. No one could demote me, no one could try to destroy my reputation, no one could leave me death threat notes, because no one knew about me. The others: Roger, Marilyn, Lana, Dennis, and yes, possibly even Christopher: they were vulnerable and they were afraid.
Marti, I never thought about how afraid Walken must've been. Of course part of the fear was probably for his career, selfishly, but understandably so. But maybe it went further than that. RJ seemed to have been intimidating on that weekend, and there was a dead body on Sunday morning. It stands to reason Walken may have been VERY afraid. You really seem to think these things through on all angles, something very important in establishing how it always comes back to ONE person. RJ Wagner is the hub of all the destructive criteria surrounding this mess. Above all, Marti, you are a voice of reason surrounding this mess. It's appreciated. I once talked to alot of RJ fans and NOTHING (you don't have italics capabilities here, so I capitalize) reasonable I ever suggested was possible to talk about intelligently. Their minds are closed. I was one of them. Thank you for opening my mind.
ReplyDeleteAnything is possible. However, up until the bottle breaking incident, Wagner was just a pissy host. The violence of the bottle would startle and frighten anybody. Walken wisely excused himself to his cabin. If he indeed heard the argument between Natalie and Wagner, then fear could definitely have played a part in his actions. As of now, we are taking him at his word that he heard nothing. Dennis seems to back up the possibility of this story. So as far as we know, only Dennis witnessed Wagner's metamorphis into scary lunatic. Walken probably was never one of the people threatened either. He told the same story, why would he be? Lots to think about here. For me, the jury is still out on Walken.
ReplyDeletein the first biography i read there were many witnesses from the restaurant that they were at that night that say there was an odd tension from RJ almost as if he were jealous of natalie and CW's relationship and suggested that RJ made a few plays for CW?? I still wonder why there are some rumors about RJ's sexuality but not by her sister Lana or anyone truly close to the bunch. just curious??
ReplyDeleteAfraid........I think not.......the guy was from NYC. But he was much younger than RJ so intimidated is more likely the word. Who knows CW could be bisexual and He RJ and John Travolta and all the other men in LA living the lie could be good at zipping the mouth.
ReplyDeleteCW had no motives at the time to want natalie dead but he did have a motive not to ruin his reputation. RJ may have played that card to him and said that he was going to reveal to the world that he was having an affair with natalie and at the time maybe CW didnt want to break his home so he kept quiet. I dont think CW knows anything other than the fact that natalie and RJ had a fight nat fell overboard somehow and died. He was probably in shock. new it was done and didnt want to get involved anymore than he already was. now years later, maybe he can come out and say that he was threatened by RJ not to talk... who knows??
ReplyDeleteremember, it seemed to take a few hours for RJ/ the skipper and CW to report nat missing. Now there also is a chance that CW was asleep and that only RJ and the skipper knew about nats death and maybe they didnt wake CW until their story was set.
ReplyDelete"fell overboard" She didn't fall.
ReplyDeleteMy feeling is that Wagner killed Natalie because she told him that she was going to make his bi-sexuality public. Wagner is paranoid about his sexuality. At that time it would have destroyed his career.
Walken's wife is aware of his dalliances and Natalie, shall we say, was not one of them
Wagner made the decision as to when to report Natalie missing. That's on him. Dennis wanted to turn on the lights and begin immediately, Wagner said "no".
ReplyDeleteIf Walken says that Wagner threatened him, he's lying but if he says that Wagner is telling the truth, he's being honest and truthful. Typical Wagner supporter. EVERYONE is lying EXPECT Robert Wagner who lied to the police who were investigating his beloved wife's death. OK
jrt, you ask "who knows?"
ReplyDeleteWell, DENNIS KNOWS!
Natalie didn't "fall overboard" -- stop with the speculations here, we're dealing with facts. If she "fell" it was the result of a being on the deck in a heated argument, thus, if she "fell" there should have been an immediate attempt to rescue her and there was actually a deliberate attempt and decision to NOT rescue her. That's a FACT.
Walken was in his cabin and had no part in the night.
Wagner refused to do anything to save Natalie even though Dennis wanted to look for her, while hoping she WAS in the dinghy.
One of the first things that occurred to me while reading the book was, Chris Walken really seemed to respect and like Natalie. I wonder what went through his mind when he woke up the morning after Natalie's death and learned what happened while he was sleeping. I would imagine he'd have to be blown away remembering RJ's behavior the night before, and now Natalie is mysteriously missing and found dead. What a shock. I'm sure he had a lot of internal arguments -- "This will damage my fledgling movie career" "I'll be asked about this every time I'm interviewed" "What harm will come to me if I tell the truth?" Still, in my mind it doesn't excuse his choice to lie.
ReplyDeleteHe *had* to have gotten to know Natalie well while they were filming. I would be devastated if a close co-worker appeared to have been murdered. In a way, I hope Natalie haunts his memories.
...from KB